- From: David Lewis <dave.lewis@cs.tcd.ie>
- Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:24:35 +0000
- To: "Dr. David Filip" <David.Filip@ul.ie>
- Cc: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>, Phil Ritchie <philr@vistatec.ie>, "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
Perhaps if we are inverting the meaning, then 'anomalous' might be a better name. Just a suggestion. Dave On 26 Feb 2013, at 13:39, "Dr. David Filip" <David.Filip@ul.ie> wrote: > All, I realize that Yves, had proposed inverting the value to > non-conformance here > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html > which I think makes lot of sense. > So we indeed need Phil's input here for making the call for consensus. > @Phil, will you have this addressed in your proposal by tomorrow in > order to move forward to the call for consensus? > Thanks > dF > > Dr. David Filip > ======================= > LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS > University of Limerick, Ireland > telephone: +353-6120-2781 > cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 > facsimile: +353-6120-2734 > mailto: david.filip@ul.ie > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Dr. David Filip <David.Filip@ul.ie> wrote: >> Felix, thanks for the minutes. >> Felix, Phil, I expected a call for consensus to accept the new >> conformance type as proposed by Phil, but the minutes say that this >> did not move forward because Phil was not present. >> Do you want Phil to make the call for consensus? I thought all was >> clear on this one, and we literally only wanted to see if anyone >> eventually comes with a new material objection. >> I think it is time to close this one.. Thanks and please let me know >> how you want to proceed re this issue. >> dF >> >> Dr. David Filip >> ======================= >> LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS >> University of Limerick, Ireland >> telephone: +353-6120-2781 >> cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 >> facsimile: +353-6120-2734 >> mailto: david.filip@ul.ie >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> minutes are at >>> http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html >>> and below as text. Two important action items: >>> >>> - please fill in the doodle poll for Luxembourg, see >>> http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9 >>> - HTML implementers: have a look at >>> http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#item04 >>> and the discussion on defaults for HTML. The default implementation proposal >>> at >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0235.html >>> may put some burden on implementers, see e.g. >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0243.html >>> before moving this forward we need to be sure that this is feasible. We will >>> discuss the topic again on Wednesday. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Felix >>> >>> >>> - Felix >>> >>> >>> [1]W3C >>> >>> [1] http://www.w3.org/ >>> >>> - DRAFT - >>> >>> MLW-LT WG >>> >>> 25 Feb 2013 >>> >>> [2]Agenda >>> >>> [2] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0241.html >>> >>> See also: [3]IRC log >>> >>> [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-irc >>> >>> Attendees >>> >>> Present >>> joerg, felix, kfritsche, Ankit, Des, Pedro, omstefanov, >>> Jirka, Yves, shaunm, Marcis, pnietoca, leroy, mdelolmo, >>> Giuseppe, Milan, tadej, davelewis >>> >>> Regrets >>> christian, clemens, dom >>> >>> Chair >>> felix >>> >>> Scribe >>> shaunm >>> >>> Contents >>> >>> * [4]Topics >>> 1. [5]agenda >>> 2. [6]High level usage scenario doc publication >>> 3. [7]HTML ITS default behaviour >>> 4. [8]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt >>> /track/issues/68 >>> 5. [9]Conformance type >>> 6. [10]XLIFF mapping >>> 7. [11]Unicode normalization / NIF comments , ITS >>> Ontology >>> 8. [12]AOB / Rome / Luxembourg prep >>> * [13]Summary of Action Items >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> >>> agenda >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >>> lt/2013Feb/0241.html >>> >>> [14] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0241.html >>> >>> High level usage scenario doc publication >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [15]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use >>> _cases_-_high_level_summary >>> >>> [15] >>> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_level_summary >>> >>> <fsasaki> - having Christian editing the doc until next Monday >>> - vote for publication 6 March call - publication 8 March >>> >>> <fsasaki> next monday = 4 march >>> >>> fsasaki: publishing march 8. last date before the workshop >>> ... Please go through your use cases >>> >>> HTML ITS default behaviour >>> >>> Yves_: there is discrepancy in behavior between different data >>> categories in HTML >>> ... when an author marks up a document because of different >>> behavior in different tools >>> ... we don't specify things like the <b> element should be >>> withinText >>> >>> <fsasaki> ITS 1.0 global rules are at >>> [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/#relating-its-plus-xhtml >>> >>> [16] http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/#relating-its-plus-xhtml >>> >>> Yves_: we could have a set of global rules for HTML that >>> implementors must use >>> ... if you don't implement global rules, this won't work. >>> instead have default attributes >>> >>> <fsasaki> default implementation proposal at >>> [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >>> lt/2013Feb/0235.html >>> >>> [17] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0235.html >>> >>> Yves_: implementation of such defaults is probably difficult >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >>> lt/2013Feb/0243.html >>> >>> [18] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0243.html >>> >>> Yves_: implementation is not a problem for okapi >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >>> lt/2013Feb/0205.html >>> >>> [19] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0205.html >>> >>> pnietoca: some MT systems hardcode translation of some >>> attributes >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [20]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085 >>> >>> [20] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085 >>> >>> Yves_: currently html translate affects attribute and >>> its:translate does not >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [21]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#datacategories >>> -defaults-etc >>> >>> [21] >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#datacategories-defaults-etc >>> >>> kfritsche: in our implementation, we use non HTML specific >>> defaults from the ITS spec, sec. 8.1 >>> >>> <Marcis> Will there be a list of defaults somewhere specified? >>> We are currently adding Elements Within Text rules within HTML >>> documents... >>> >>> pnietoca: we use global rules for translate, for instance. >>> ... if some people don't use it, you have to hardcode which >>> attributes to translate >>> >>> kfritsche: is this the proposal to change the default values in >>> table 8.1? >>> >>> Yves_: proposal is to have in the html specification >>> information on defaults >>> >>> fsasaki: or we could provide a global rules file >>> ... I was proposing the defaults for people only doing its >>> locally >>> >>> Yves_: there's a discrepancy between defaults and global rules >>> because of overriding >>> ... people who don't implement ITS globally just have to make >>> sure the behavior with defaults matches what it would be with >>> default values >>> >>> <fsasaki> shaun: issue of not knowing what you are overriding >>> with local attributes - that is an issue with any format right? >>> >>> <fsasaki> yves: yes >>> >>> <fsasaki> shaun: who are the implementers who don't do global >>> rules? >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [22]http://htmlpreview.github.com/?https://raw.github.com/finnl >>> e/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html >>> >>> [22] >>> http://htmlpreview.github.com/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html >>> >>> <fsasaki> it seems everybody of the implementers currently on >>> the table, do global rules >>> >>> <fsasaki> karl: new implementers might do local markup only - >>> we should be aware of that >>> >>> <fsasaki> shaun: there is no implementation difficulty for me >>> either way >>> >>> fsasaki: propose not to close this issue too fast >>> ... other people not on the call might have different opinions >>> >>> Yves_: implementors could look at their implementations to see >>> how difficult defaults versus global rules is >>> >>> fsasaki: give implementors time, come back to issue next >>> wednesday >>> >>> <daveL> apologies for joining late >>> >>> [23]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/ >>> 68 >>> >>> [23] >>> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/68 >>> >>> <fsasaki> see draft + example files here >>> [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >>> lt/2013Feb/0221.html >>> >>> [24] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html >>> >>> tadej: no major contents changes. sent a draft to the mailing >>> list >>> ... we are dropping granularity levels, renaming to text >>> analysis, clarified some >>> >>> <fsasaki> ACTION: christian to edit issue-68 proposal at >>> [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >>> lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [recorded in >>> [26]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01] >>> >>> [25] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html >>> >>> <trackbot> Created ACTION-451 - Edit issue-68 proposal at >>> [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >>> lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [on Christian Lieske - >>> due 2013-03-04]. >>> >>> [27] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >>> lt/2013Feb/att-0221/ta-examples-20130222.zip >>> >>> [28] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/att-0221/ta-examples-20130222.zip >>> >>> omstefanov: all the file names in the test suite still refer to >>> disambiguation >>> >>> tadej: should we rename all the files? >>> >>> leroy: yes, and move to directories named for the category >>> >>> Conformance type >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >>> lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html >>> >>> [29] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html >>> >>> fsasaki: needs input from Phil. Phil not present today >>> >>> XLIFF mapping >>> >>> daveL: xliff round-trip examples for rome help use work through >>> some issues >>> ... we need separate discussions on how best to present that as >>> best practices. don't spend time on that now. maybe in rome >>> >>> Yves_: while discussing terminology, we realized when you tag >>> something in xliff, we don't have a way to mark it up with ITS >>> in the original document >>> >>> <Marcis> A question: if we add mark-up to XLIFF, should we use >>> the mrk or its:span annotation? >>> >>> daveL: in XLIFF we can add things after authoring time; don't >>> have local markup for these in ITS >>> >>> <Yves_> to marcis: <mrk> (you can't have <its:span> in XLIFF) >>> >>> Yves_: you can add ITS attributes to <mrk>. some are redundant >>> with XLIFF attributes >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [30]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/XLI >>> FF_Mapping >>> >>> [30] >>> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/XLIFF_Mapping >>> >>> daveL: three use cases: mapping from source format to XLIFF, >>> mapping from XLIFF to target format, marking up XLIFF to be >>> consumed in XLIFF in another process >>> ... ideally have the same markup in all those cases, but might >>> not be possible >>> >>> Unicode normalization / NIF comments , ITS Ontology >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >>> lt-comments/2013Feb/0050.html >>> >>> [31] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0050.html >>> >>> fsasaki: don't require normalization in other technologies. >>> propose to close issue >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [32]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/i >>> ssues/119 >>> >>> [32] >>> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/119 >>> >>> <fsasaki> >>> [33]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/ITS >>> -RDF_mapping#Ontology_.28DRAFT.29 >>> >>> [33] >>> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/ITS-RDF_mapping#Ontology_.28DRAFT.29 >>> >>> daveL: expanded that out of example in NIF >>> ... took a Relax NG schema and went through data categories to >>> see which could be used in RDF and NIF >>> ... appreciate feedback >>> ... haven't figured out what we need to do with annotators ref. >>> works out in provenance setting, but maybe not NIF >>> ... problems where we've introduced idea that order has >>> temporal relationship >>> >>> AOB / Rome / Luxembourg prep >>> >>> <fsasaki> [34]http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9 >>> >>> [34] http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9 >>> >>> fsasaki: have a call to prepare for rome meeting. please fill >>> in doodle poll >>> >>> Summary of Action Items >>> >>> [NEW] ACTION: christian to edit issue-68 proposal at >>> [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >>> lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [recorded in >>> [36]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01] >>> >>> [35] >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html >>> >>> [End of minutes] >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Minutes formatted by David Booth's [37]scribe.perl version >>> 1.137 ([38]CVS log) >>> $Date: 2013-02-25 17:36:45 $ >>> >>> [37] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm >>> [38] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/ >
Received on Tuesday, 26 February 2013 23:25:03 UTC