[Minutes] MLW-LT call 2012-10-08 and chair volunteer (?) for next week's call from Felix Sasaki on 2012-10-08 (public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org from October 2012)

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:46:28 +0200
To: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
Message-ID: <CAL58czr58SFsjp+mubra9nrUrxVKmg8MJn=TTQ3tHqw2+2RaEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Hi all,

here are the minutes from today:

http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html

and below as text. A question about next week: Dave, David and I will be in
Seattle. Is there a volunteer to chair the call? Even if you don't have a
quorum, it might help to discuss things.

Felix

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               MLW-LT WG

08 Oct 2012

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0074.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-irc

Attendees

   Present
          daveL, naoto, fsasaki, giuseppe, leroy, irka, milan, df,
          dom, yves, tadej, ankit, phil, shaun, pedro

   Regrets
          tbd

   Chair
          felix

   Scribe
          Yves, Felix

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]welcome naoto
         2. [6]Work schedule
         3. [7]ISSUES - domain in HTML5
         4. [8]AOB
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

welcome naoto

   Naoto: from Japan, living in Irland
   ... work for CNGL at UL
   ... working on MT-related aspect of localization process
   ... quality of translation, etc. are of interest

Work schedule

   Felix: will publish in 22nd oc OCT
   ... last edit on Oct-19
   ... lot of travel before, let's see what we can do.
   ... any new update for Provenance?

   Dave: Phil sent me a new copy
   ... will look at it
   ... may need to adjust the example for tool reference
   ... Phil and I will try to discuss that tomorrow
   ... and post feedback to the list

   Felix: so when ready?

   Dave: maybe thursday

   Felix: hopefuilly can do it before Seattle

   Dave: indeed

   <scribe> ACTION: DaveL to coordinate with Phil and send new
   draft to the list by Thursday [recorded in
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-246 - Coordinate with Phil and send
   new draft to the list by Thursday [on David Lewis - due
   2012-10-15].

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to put the provenance draft in spec
   before Seattle [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-247 - Put the provenance draft in
   spec before Seattle [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-10-15].

   Felix: Disambiguation?

   Tadej: working draft going around
   ... Arle needs to look at the definitions
   ... will circulate new version after
   ... Dave wants to look at it too

   Dave: yes

   Tadej: I can ciculate current version

   Felix: not needed
   ... let's wait for the final draft
   ... can we do that this week?

   Tadej: yes, but may get updated
   ... and there is the global tool reference to deal with

   Felix: important to have those definition in darft
   ... maybe we can deal with the tool reference afterward with
   editors
   ... so we just need the next stable version

   Tadej: then yes
   ... For text analysis annotation things will depends on the
   tool reference
   ... examples will be different

   Dave: was trying to apply this to use cases
   ... what about how to control Disambiguation?
   ... we could have a lot of annotations, but even where we don't
   want them
   ... but we can't control where

   Tadej: Cocomore talked about this
   ... because it wasn't important for use case
   ... maybe a switch would be useful?

   Dave: Ok, but maybe it's a best practice
   ... suggest to discuiss this on the list

   Tadej: switch make sense to expose

   Dave: other things may be to concidered

   tadej: sure, need examples then. Let's discuss it on the list

   Felix: we are running out of time for new feature.

   Dave: Phil, quickly: have an action to work on Provance

   Felix: separation of HTML and XML

   jirka has action-220

   scribe: HTML users have specific use cases to take into account
   ... we may need the draft to be freeze to work on that

   Jirka: working on the schema today
   ... hope to have something by end of week
   ... examples could stay there
   ... idea is to specific the difference (notation, etc.)
   ... case-sensitive or not between HTML or XML
   ... such section will explain the differences
   ... and the table with all the names will help

   Felix: next week is fine too

   Jirka: will try for this week.

   Felix: next is text about Localization Implementers

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to put the Localization Implementer case
   in draft by end of the week [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-248 - Put the Localization
   Implementer case in draft by end of the week [on Felix Sasaki -
   due 2012-10-15].

   Felix: will do the NIF section this week too
   ... editorial notes: some reviews to follow up with
   ... would be good to have co-editors to go through that
   ... Shaun can you look at that?

   Shaun: yes

   Felix: will keep you up to date on the edits we do

Domain in HTML5

   Felix: Empty string?
   ... seems the outcome is decided

   Shaun: then how do you override?
   ... seems we have no default

   Jirka: allowedCharacters=".*"

   Yves: will add that to specs

Domain in HTML5

   <fsasaki> "Domain in HTML5"

   <fsasaki>
   [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
   lt/2012Oct/0057.html

     [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0057.html

   <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki

   yves: problem was that in some cases we could point in some
   cases we could point to keyword list of domain
   ... in some cases we point only to one domain value
   ... need to separate that
   ... idea is to provide the result of data category as a comma
   separated list
   ... that is built from the result of XPath expressions
   ... when you have different nodes of a single string, you do
   the same with a substring
   ... felix wrote an algorithm, I did that as a pseudo code and
   implemented it

   <Yves_> scribe: Yves_

   <fsasaki>
   [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
   lt/2012Oct/0054.html

     [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0054.html

   Felix: link is the pseudo code

   <fsasaki> "Get the list of nodes resulting ...."

   Felix: there are some example too
   ... take 2mn to look at it
   ... any thoughts?

   dF: should be working in XML
   ... looking now the HTML case
   ... not sure the issue of multiple keywords is resolved

   Felix: idea here is to provide the list

   <fsasaki> yves: goal is to get list of values

   <fsasaki> .. not a single value

   <fsasaki> .. after that you add to it

   <fsasaki> david: domain should be one domain

   <fsasaki> yves: but in HTML you can have several of them

   <fsasaki> david: so are we happy with several keywords?

   <fsasaki> yves: you can map them to one values

   <fsasaki> felix: via domainMapping attribute

   <fsasaki> david: so there is a method to parse multiple
   keywords and link a mapping

   <fsasaki> .. so I can produce m:1 and m:n mapping

   dF: ok, then I should be ok for n->1 or n->m mappings

   <fsasaki>
   [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
   lt/2012Oct/0054.html

     [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0054.html

   <fsasaki>
   [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
   lt/2012Oct/0057.html

     [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0057.html

   Felix: this email above has some examples

   df: we can only reduce?

   Felix: yes

   df: no sure about this
   ... seems that to be able to have several domain is a problem?
   ... should we be able to set priority

   Dave: we talked about this, Declan noted it wasn't really
   possible to specify that
   ... difficult to have a set way to do this
   ... there are not really good practices for this

   <Ankit> Yeah, in MT, usually a document will belong to one
   domain..

   dF: there is an asymmetric aspect in the data category
   ... we may need to do that for XML too

   Felix: you can already

   <fsasaki> yves: you can point to the same type of keyowrds in
   xml too

   <fsasaki> .. if you want to have a list of separated values

   <fsasaki> felix: would have an xpath expression that would
   point to several nodes

   dF: I see.
   ... should we agree n->1 is the best practice?
   ... m->n mapping complicate things

   Felix: it depends on what you testing

   <fsasaki>
   [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
   lt/2012Oct/0057.html

     [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0057.html

   Felix: see in example there where domainMapping is used

   dF: see you can do conformance test
   ... but business case may be more tricky
   ... sevral domains may not be useable

   Felix: so how to move forward?

   dF: asking simply if the n->1 mapping is required

   Dave: seems that it's more useful to know all domains than to
   redice them to one
   ... reducing is fine, but using all is fine as well
   ... mapping/reduction is complicated to do
   ... not sure we can solve this on the ITS side

   Naoto: from MT viewpoint having one domain is simpler
   ... multiple doamins would be already in multiple documents
   ... different domains = different models

   dF: think you can specify multiple domain in the same document

   Felix: should continue this discussion in list

   dF: we are using domain
   ... supporting multiple would be a big change
   ... not sure we can be conformant than

   Shaun: sounds like issue is where the data comes from
   ... like HTML keywords
   ... maybe that could be a best practice: primary set first

   and then MT can just take the first one

   Felix: sound like a good solution
   ... best practice allows to use things like keywords then
   ... but need more discussion probably

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves_ to add the Domain algorithm in draft
   asap [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find Yves_. You can review and
   register nicknames at
   <[19]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/u
   sers>.

     [19] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/users%3E.

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to add the Domain algorithm in draft asap
   [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-249 - Add the Domain algorithm in
   draft asap [on Yves Savourel - due 2012-10-15].

AOB

   Felix: any othe rtopic?

   Phil: sent some question about toolRefs
   ... could we talk about it Dave? on Wednesday call

   Dave: yes

   Felix: I can help if you want, let me know.

   Phil: late morning tomorrow might work for me.

   Pedro: two questions:
   ... for unstable data categories: should we wait for
   implementation?
   ... and other question: are ready for readiness

   Felix: please focus on data categories that are important, even
   if not stable
   ... for readiness, please go ahead

   Dave: agree with felix

   Pedro: ok

   Felix: main call is done

   <fsasaki> Jirka, we lost you on gotomeeting, it seems

   <fsasaki> ACTION: felix to make sure that the its20 draft says
   the right thing in sec. 1.1.1 about direcitonality and ruby -
   if we make them non-backward compatibly [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-250 - Make sure that the its20 draft
   says the right thing in sec. 1.1.1 about direcitonality and
   ruby - if we make them non-backward compatibly [on Felix Sasaki
   - due 2012-10-15].

   <fsasaki>
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
   lt/2012Oct/0004.html

     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0004.html

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: DaveL to coordinate with Phil and send new draft
   to the list by Thursday [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: felix to make sure that the its20 draft says the
   right thing in sec. 1.1.1 about direcitonality and ruby - if we
   make them non-backward compatibly [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to put the Localization Implementer case in
   draft by end of the week [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to put the provenance draft in spec before
   Seattle [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to add the Domain algorithm in draft asap
   [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves_ to add the Domain algorithm in draft asap
   [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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Received on Monday, 8 October 2012 18:46:54 UTC