- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:14:17 +0100
- To: "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <50B3B179.9080203@w3.org>
are at http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html and below as
text. I tried to clean up the minutes a bit, please check if I got
everything right.
Thanks,
Felix
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
mlw-lt WG
26 Nov 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0210.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-irc
Attendees
Present
Jirka, Ankit, dF, Yves, felix, daveL, kfritsche,
DomJones, Des, leroy, omstefanov, pnietoca, Christian,
philr, chrLi, Pedro, Arle, mdelolmo, milan
Regrets
Naoto, Jörg
Chair
felix
Scribe
dF
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Test suite
2. [6]Drop localization quality precis
3. [7]Closing ISSUE-42 tools information
4. [8]Actions needed for the LC draft
5. [9]Editing calls Tue - Wed
6. [10]Stability of quality issue types
7. [11]AOB
8. [12]EU PROJECT SPECIFIC
* [13]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
Test suite
<fsasaki>
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt-tests/2012Nov/0071.html
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-tests/2012Nov/0071.html
fsasaki: What is the nature of the second milestone?
... can you summarize?
<fsasaki> see milestones also at
[15]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG
5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0
[15] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0
DomJones1: M2 is less formal
... M3 and on are stronger, more formal
Yves_: nothing to add to Dom's summary
philr: I would have approached it in a meaningfully different
way
... does everybody need to implement all the categories?
fsasaki: the minimum is 2 implementations that produce the test
suite output
... as discussed, it is for demonstrating interoperability
... we need the extra effort of interop testing to show that
the implementations do the same across scenarios
<fsasaki>
[16]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG
5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0
[16] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0
fsasaki: the recorded commitments are for the test suite
<DomJones1> ack
philr: are there strong rulings re parsing methods?
fsasaki: there are no such rules, just input and output files,
no questions for your methodology in between
<omstefanov> will there be any independent running of these
tests?
<chriLi> +queue
leroy: people asked if they can modify test suite files
... can correct obvious errors, but discuss anything other
before changing
chriLi: more general question, any decision for using test
case, mandate for use cases?
<omstefanov> +omstefanov
<fsasaki> [17]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/mlw-lt-charter.html
[17] http://www.w3.org/2012/09/mlw-lt-charter.html
<omstefanov> +queue
fsasaki: test suite is w3c requirement
... CR phase should start in March
... test suite is critical for proving interoperability during
CR
... any other questions?
Des: question on timing..
... I could not do it within the publicly given time frame
fsasaki: are you referring to your implementation effort?
Des: yes
fsasaki: Do not worry, with exception of LQ Precis, all
categories are covered by other commitments
... continue contributing tests
<DomJones1> Wanted to ask / minute that if any implementors
have any issues with keeping to test-suite dates could they
please let Dominic know as soon as possible. This way we can
work with you to match resources and the time frame.
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to nudge data category owners asking for
test suite contributions by the end of the year [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-319 - Nudge data category owners
asking for test suite contributions by the end of the year [on
Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-03].
Drop localization quality precis
<fsasaki>
[19]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
ts20/its20.html#lqprecis
[19] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#lqprecis
checking of global rules did not progress
<fsasaki> "100 (inclusive) with higher values indicating a
better score"
<fsasaki>
[20]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG
5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0
[20] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0
fsasaki: It is hard to read, contains nested rules, not enough
work here, not enough test suite commitments
... only Vistatec and UL committing to test this, this is thin
... looking for a champion, no need to actually edit the spec,
but needs work on exact specification text
philr: I feel it has a role to play
... there was a vision for far reaching mechanism, eventually
non-normative..
... I am not up to speed with tool ref, which might be the
issue
... I will try my best to move this by the end of this week
... I agree it must be dropped if little progress this week
fsasaki: E.g. readiness was dropped due to lack of consensus
... this might mean tabling till the 2.1
<fsasaki> ACTION: phil to work on lq precis to see if we can
keep it in the spec [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-320 - Work on lq precis to see if we
can keep it in the spec [on Phil Ritchie - due 2012-12-03].
Arle: offering help to philr to work on the category by the end
of this week
philr: accepting help offer..
<Jirka> yep
fsasaki: creating action 320
Jirka: Should I add it to the schema?
fsasaki: This cannot wait for the next week because Jirla is
working on the normative schema
... we would need hard commitment or drop it
... results by tomorrow, or so.., would that work if you get
results be wednesday, Jirka?
philr: wed lunch time?
<Jirka> yep, wed is ok
Arle and philr agreeing working time Wed morning, forming LQP
task force
Closing ISSUE-42 tools information
fsasaki: last mail from Yves
Yves_: we need to have this attribute specified for some
categories
... like mtConfidence
... thing getting hairy on the global side, becuase it can have
different inheritance behavior to the category
... it might be OK on local level only, but you could not
address attributes
... we might rule out a bunch of formats.. we seem to be
running in circles
fsasaki: another proposal by Dave
daveL: scared by global rules here, i.e. agreement with Yves
basically
... argument, you need it cases where schema cannot be changed,
might not need it anyway
<chriLi> What's the reference to Yves' mail?
daveL: local expression of tool ref might inherit to
attributes, unclear if we say so.
fsasaki: Can we close the issue as is
Yves_: the caveat is that in mtConfdence you would need both
global and local
fsasaki: It would be soved with a note? we even do not need a
note..
Yves_: agreed
<fsasaki> close issues-42
<fsasaki> close issue-42
<trackbot> ISSUE-42 Tool and confidence related information is
similar for mtConfidence, textAnalysisAnnotation, quality
closed
<fsasaki>
[22]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/i
ssues/open
[22] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/open
felix: open topics are editorial isssues, and xliff mapping, so
nothing that would prevent us from moving to last calls
fsasaki: I formally invite people to express any issues with
normative parts of the spec for LC
Actions needed for the LC draft
<fsasaki> action-286?
<trackbot> ACTION-286 -- Shaun McCance to put data category
table into non-normative appendix in the spec -- due 2012-11-19
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[23]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/ac
tions/286
[23] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/286
<fsasaki> ACTION: felix to take over shauns action itemt on
data category table [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-321 - Take over shauns action itemt
on data category table [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-03].
fsasaki: taking over Shaun's action item to create data
category table. Next action-297 Address Query Language related
Ed notes in draft.
<Jirka> done
fsasaki: question about normativeness of schema
... RelaxNG is the normative
... XML schema will be mostly automatically generated,
informative
<fsasaki> action-314?
<trackbot> ACTION-314 -- Yves Savourel to check global rules
for provenance -- due 2012-11-27 -- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[25]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/ac
tions/314
[25] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/314
<fsasaki>
[26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Nov/0186.html
[26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0186.html
fsasaki: Yves did that. Is there a need to chenge anything in
the spec?
Yves_: Looking at the examples.
issues with mapping to XLIFF
toolref and pointers cannot be mapped onto XLIFF
<fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
davidF: if I map MT confidence to XLIFF
... and I don't know who produdced that
... I lost all information
yves: not saying you cannot put the information
... but you cannot do that with a pointer
dave: Yves is reffering to toolsRef
... have to think about that
<dF> DaveL: the issue os with toolref in Provenace not the Tool
Reference element
dave: will look at it tonight, we can discuss at the call
tomorrow
<scribe> scribe: dF
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: you are right that this might be the only
major point for ponters, it might be otherwise good to get rid
of pointers
... this will be adressed in the editting call totmorrow
<fsasaki> ACTION: felix to make sure next call we discuss
poiner issues for proveancne and toolsRef [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-322 - Make sure next call we discuss
poiner issues for proveancne and toolsRef [on Felix Sasaki -
due 2012-12-03].
fsasaki: This is to make sure that the group has follow up to
the editting call
... harmonization of interval 0-1 iclusive, mial posted by df
<fsasaki>
[28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Nov/0202.html
[28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0202.html
fsasaki: report on number of small changes to the spec
... is there someone on the call who was through them, or
volunteers to go through them
<fsasaki> ACTION: daveL to check edits at
[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Nov/0202.html [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
[29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0202.html
<trackbot> Created ACTION-323 - Check edits at
[31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Nov/0202.html [on David Lewis - due 2012-12-03].
[31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0202.html
Yves_: Id id not see anything controversial, covered everything
but did not go into detail in all
Editing calls Tue - Wed
taking roll call for the partcipation in edittting call Tue and
Wed
<fsasaki> felix
<Yves_> yves
<Arle> Arle: Tuesday and Wednesday
<kfritsche> kfritsche
<fsasaki> dave
<pnietoca> pnietoca
<Jirka> jirka - probably tue, wed and thu
<fsasaki> david: I can do the 1st hour tomorrow
<fsasaki> .. and wednesday the call
dF: I can make Wed
fsasaki, start meeting with splitting up and fork parallel
editting
scribe: meeting agian in an hour or so.., depend on how many
have editting set up
daveL: might have issues with too many instances of goto, but
might do also skype
<chriLi> +queue
fsasaki: editting can be done fully offline, the others can
make a coffee break
omstafanov: what about independent testing?
fsasaki: what do you mean by independent?
omstefanov: the tests are designed by implmeneters, does any
one verify if ENLASO indeed conforms?
fsasaki: the idea is that the tests and results are public
... it is OK to base test results on the same library across
implementations, but this all will be reviewed by w3c mgmt
omstefanov: thanks, this is answered..
DomJones1: We hope that the transparent test suite will attract
independent implementers (not now in the group)
chriLi: ... I started going through the spec, normative and
non-normative.. Is it a good time to post my commments on the
non-normative part of the spec now?
fsasaki: Christian is going through explanatory sections, but
we only need to stabilize the normative parts now..
... about "what is the time for feedback on non-normative"
parts: I would say as soon as possible, but it might just take
after the last call draft publication before we come back to
comments
Stability of quality issue types
<fsasaki>
[32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Nov/0208.html
[32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0208.html
fsasaki: Danile is impmenting this
... Arle, does this discussion reveal any changes?
Arle: It does not require normative changes
... just explanatory
fsasaki: discussion to continue on the list
AOB
fsasaki: AOB? Nothing
EU PROJECT SPECIFIC
<Pedro> Felix, can you on the micro
The mlw-lt call is adjourned, but everybody can stay, no secret
discussion here
The following is only important for the LT-Web partners, re end
of year report
<fsasaki> nieves.sande@dfki.de arle, felix
fsasaki: send everything to the memberlist, and put Nieves,
Arle, and Felix three people into CC. NIeves will put the
presentatinos and other material into the presentations
archive, see link below. Send not only outreach material, but
also slides etc.
<daveL>
[33]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Pr
esentations_archive
[33] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Presentations_archive
<chriLi> We mentioned www.multilingualweb.eu in tcWorld 2012
[34]http://conferences.tekom.de/fileadmin/tx_doccon/slides/115_
Highlights_Holes_in_and_Hopes_for_the_Multilingual_Web_.pdf
[34] http://conferences.tekom.de/fileadmin/tx_doccon/slides/115_Highlights_Holes_in_and_Hopes_for_the_Multilingual_Web_.pdf
<fsasaki> yes, chriLi, above presentation counts too.
fsasaki: It is good to include stuff by not funded parties
fsasaki: Arle is going to preopare an HTML webpage for the
report.
Pedro: we need more homogeneity in the report
... we should get a template, so that the content is easily
parsed
<fsasaki> ACTION: arle to create template for report [recorded
in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-324 - Create template for report [on
Arle Lommel - due 2012-12-03].
Arle: It will be OK if you stick to basic HTML, we can style it
with CSS
Pedro: timeframe for LC publication?
<fsasaki> this will be the URI of the draft. Publication date
will be 6 December:
[36]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/
[36] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/
fsasaki: the time frame of the LC is early next week, I can
give you the URI now, see above
... AOB?
... adjourned
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: arle to create template for report [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: daveL to check edits at
[38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Nov/0202.html [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to make sure next call we discuss poiner
issues for proveancne and toolsRef [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Felix to nudge data category owners asking for
test suite contributions by the end of the year [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to take over shauns action itemt on data
category table [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: phil to work on lq precis to see if we can keep
it in the spec [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
[38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0202.html
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Monday, 26 November 2012 18:14:45 UTC