Re: MATF Minutes June 20, 2019

Also posted this one a week ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UEYHcAfOqg​



________________________________
From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 6:24 PM
To: public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
Subject: MATF Minutes June 20, 2019

MATF Minutes June 20, 2019 link: https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html


Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
20 Jun 2019
Attendees

Present
MarcJohlic, jon_avila, Kim, Detlev, Jennifer, Jake
Regrets

Chair
Kimberly_Patch
Scribe
Detlev
Contents

  *   Topics<https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
     *   touch target spacing<https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
  *   Summary of Action Items<https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  *   Summary of Resolutions<https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

________________________________

Kim: Apple announced iOS13

<kim> TOPIC iOS13 update accessibility

Jennifer: Promis that many things will be more accessible
... default font would be a Mac type
... pre-rogrammed accessibility labels

<kim> https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13-preview/features/


Kim: Changes look significant
... more voice control options enabled
... historically you can't do much inside programs, so thi sis building speech into the OS better
... with Siri you can do everything - use grid, show labels
... turn it on and off, even of. say label
... wil be good example of instructional text
... Text about a11y has changed under "even more"
...Marc: Voice options listed at the top of Accessibility now

Jennifer: Will be easier to set up a11y settings out of the box
... Not so deeply nested, A11y now higher up the hierarchy

Kim: Another good thing is text editing - more gestures
... haven't tried them yet
... also more keyboard shortcuts

Detlev: Any improvement for keyboard access on iOS with external keyboard?

Kim: iPad and iPhone split off, iPad haviong more options like opening the desktop version of web sites

Jennifer: Should be able to use voice control to assign gestures to a voice command so you can execute gestures with voice

Kim: dev version is out, not public
... Has been in the works a long time, looks like deeply integrated stuff
... Not sure how far "comprehensive voice operation" goes
... important would be to let users customise commands - not sure if that is included
... possible on Mac, not sure if implemented also in iOS13

Detlev: hopes keyboard operability on iOS has changed

Jennifer: Android Q is out?

Jon: confirms.

Some new APIs

<jon_avila> https://developer.android.com/preview/features


Kim: Looks like it is all implemented (Android)

Marc: Not lloking as robust

Jon: Focus is more on other features (not a11y)
... a111y timeouts, shortcut stuff

Kim: What are the things you want from mobile operating systems?

Jennifer: friend tried Android phone, but could not use it

Detlev: used to be more sluggish regarding gesture input

Jake: report about a guy who was forced to use an Android device because iphone was broken
..conclusion: if there was better Braille support his next phone would be an Android device

Jon: Voice Access (which used to be beta) ...

Jake: does its job but not as good as iOS, maybe dwon to accent a bit

<kim> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wRAViPfAJ4Ytqc71tGZp6gU07HNd2QQaNgtJsog-D90/edit#gid=124994642


<kim> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Q9md2AvmeTgvsT9GB62BsGvCaalDGtE6


Kim: Jake - is there stuff from last call (on gesture hints) - talk more about it?

Jake: Most changes were wording changes

<kim> v

<kim> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ouVFq4w-i0rchNHtTAG_JoRwHfYm9mN2MkxFBct1JSI/edit


Detlev: apologies for not havign read it - promis to read!

Jake: Input welcome

<scribe> ACTION: Detlev read doc, give feedback

<trackbot> Created ACTION-76 - Read doc, give feedback [on Detlev Fischer - due 2019-06-27].

<kim> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NEDLUWt_VFKtdHhcgm4j-ssWguSGeY8fhdSxm_41WzU/edit#heading=h.mntlv4jvrc29


Kim: Portrait/ Landscape, different content

<kim> TOPIC portrait/landscape

<jon_avila> the essential part seems incorrect as it talks about gestures

Jake: Not sure what the status of this doc is, could be an older version
... lets skip it for no and go to touch target

touch target spacing

Jake: was discussed on call Tues

Jon: reports concerns that touch target space between might not be (easily) testable

<kim> TOPIC concern about touch target testing

Jake: Comments were pointing out that if you define layout via percentages of flex not css pixels you might get different distances so space will depend on viewport width etc.
... so measurement would involve things like screenshot, programatic workout of positions seems not feasible
... inspector can in those cases not work out the distance

Kim: So is this a roadblock - can we get around it?

Jake: Cant see a solution apart form scoping to cases where offsets are defined in picels

Jon: Is this the same issue as with touch target size?

Jake: No, that one is always measurable in pixels

<jon_avila> I have to jump off. sorry

Jake: Distance, if not defined in pixels, you can only guess - no margins, paddings defined

Kim: How often does this happen?

Jake: The more these Techniques are used the more difficult it gets
... If it is not 100% testable we don't even need to ask that question - asking Wilco will probably have the same result
... you can measure every pixel on screen but there are many variations
... screenshot-based will be very awkward

Detlev (describing way of measuring)

Jake: When elements are close it could be 5,7 8 pixels, difficult to judge

Detlev: Use a ruler?

Jake: give it a background, see the touch area - it is an option but not easy

Detlev: was linked with target size - uncoupled it is less valuable (not as important for large targets)

Jake: We can look for elements without background padding positioned via flex / % we can ask people if they think it can be measured and discuss

Kim: Will we ask Wilco, will this be useful?

Jake: We can ask him

Kim: would be good

Jake: Can ask him, send an email

Detlev: Wondering if anything is in the works for single point activation for swiping / dragging, also for SR users on mobile - if not, we should try to put it in for 2.2

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Detlev read doc, give feedback

Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
________________________________
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version 1.154 (CVS log<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
$Date: 2019/06/20 16:21:06 $
________________________________

___________________________________________________

Kimberly Patch

www.redstartsystems.com<http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly

PatchonTech.com<http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
@PatchonTech
www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch<http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
___________________________________________________

-----------------------------------------------------------------
ATTENTION:
The information in this e-mail is confidential and only meant for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, don't use or disclose it in any way. Please let the sender know and delete the message immediately.
-----------------------------------------------------------------