MATF Minutes June 20, 2019

*MATF Minutes June 20, 2019 link: 
https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html

*Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    20 Jun 2019


    Attendees

Present
    MarcJohlic, jon_avila, Kim, Detlev, Jennifer, Jake
Regrets

Chair
    Kimberly_Patch
Scribe
    Detlev


    Contents

  * Topics <https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
     1. touch target spacing
        <https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  * Summary of Resolutions
    <https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>


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Kim: Apple announced iOS13

<kim> TOPIC iOS13 update accessibility

Jennifer: Promis that many things will be more accessible
... default font would be a Mac type
... pre-rogrammed accessibility labels

<kim> https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13-preview/features/

Kim: Changes look significant
... more voice control options enabled
... historically you can't do much inside programs, so thi sis building 
speech into the OS better
... with Siri you can do everything - use grid, show labels
... turn it on and off, even of. say label
... wil be good example of instructional text
... Text about a11y has changed under "even more"
...Marc: Voice options listed at the top of Accessibility now

Jennifer: Will be easier to set up a11y settings out of the box
... Not so deeply nested, A11y now higher up the hierarchy

Kim: Another good thing is text editing - more gestures
... haven't tried them yet
... also more keyboard shortcuts

Detlev: Any improvement for keyboard access on iOS with external keyboard?

Kim: iPad and iPhone split off, iPad haviong more options like opening 
the desktop version of web sites

Jennifer: Should be able to use voice control to assign gestures to a 
voice command so you can execute gestures with voice

Kim: dev version is out, not public
... Has been in the works a long time, looks like deeply integrated stuff
... Not sure how far "comprehensive voice operation" goes
... important would be to let users customise commands - not sure if 
that is included
... possible on Mac, not sure if implemented also in iOS13

Detlev: hopes keyboard operability on iOS has changed

Jennifer: Android Q is out?

Jon: confirms.

Some new APIs

<jon_avila> https://developer.android.com/preview/features

Kim: Looks like it is all implemented (Android)

Marc: Not lloking as robust

Jon: Focus is more on other features (not a11y)
... a111y timeouts, shortcut stuff

Kim: What are the things you want from mobile operating systems?

Jennifer: friend tried Android phone, but could not use it

Detlev: used to be more sluggish regarding gesture input

Jake: report about a guy who was forced to use an Android device because 
iphone was broken
..conclusion: if there was better Braille support his next phone would 
be an Android device

Jon: Voice Access (which used to be beta) ...

Jake: does its job but not as good as iOS, maybe dwon to accent a bit

<kim> 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wRAViPfAJ4Ytqc71tGZp6gU07HNd2QQaNgtJsog-D90/edit#gid=124994642

<kim> 
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Q9md2AvmeTgvsT9GB62BsGvCaalDGtE6

Kim: Jake - is there stuff from last call (on gesture hints) - talk more 
about it?

Jake: Most changes were wording changes

<kim> v

<kim> 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ouVFq4w-i0rchNHtTAG_JoRwHfYm9mN2MkxFBct1JSI/edit

Detlev: apologies for not havign read it - promis to read!

Jake: Input welcome

<scribe> *ACTION:* Detlev read doc, give feedback

<trackbot> Created ACTION-76 - Read doc, give feedback [on Detlev 
Fischer - due 2019-06-27].

<kim> 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NEDLUWt_VFKtdHhcgm4j-ssWguSGeY8fhdSxm_41WzU/edit#heading=h.mntlv4jvrc29

Kim: Portrait/ Landscape, different content

<kim> TOPIC portrait/landscape

<jon_avila> the essential part seems incorrect as it talks about gestures

Jake: Not sure what the status of this doc is, could be an older version
... lets skip it for no and go to touch target


      touch target spacing

Jake: was discussed on call Tues

Jon: reports concerns that touch target space between might not be 
(easily) testable

<kim> TOPIC concern about touch target testing

Jake: Comments were pointing out that if you define layout via 
percentages of flex not css pixels you might get different distances so 
space will depend on viewport width etc.
... so measurement would involve things like screenshot, programatic 
workout of positions seems not feasible
... inspector can in those cases not work out the distance

Kim: So is this a roadblock - can we get around it?

Jake: Cant see a solution apart form scoping to cases where offsets are 
defined in picels

Jon: Is this the same issue as with touch target size?

Jake: No, that one is always measurable in pixels

<jon_avila> I have to jump off. sorry

Jake: Distance, if not defined in pixels, you can only guess - no 
margins, paddings defined

Kim: How often does this happen?

Jake: The more these Techniques are used the more difficult it gets
... If it is not 100% testable we don't even need to ask that question - 
asking Wilco will probably have the same result
... you can measure every pixel on screen but there are many variations
... screenshot-based will be very awkward

Detlev (describing way of measuring)

Jake: When elements are close it could be 5,7 8 pixels, difficult to judge

Detlev: Use a ruler?

Jake: give it a background, see the touch area - it is an option but not 
easy

Detlev: was linked with target size - uncoupled it is less valuable (not 
as important for large targets)

Jake: We can look for elements without background padding positioned via 
flex / % we can ask people if they think it can be measured and discuss

Kim: Will we ask Wilco, will this be useful?

Jake: We can ask him

Kim: would be good

Jake: Can ask him, send an email

Detlev: Wondering if anything is in the works for single point 
activation for swiping / dragging, also for SR users on mobile - if not, 
we should try to put it in for 2.2


    Summary of Action Items

*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Detlev read doc, give feedback


    Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]
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Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's 
scribe.perl 
<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version 
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$Date: 2019/06/20 16:21:06 $

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___________________________________________________

Kimberly Patch

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly

PatchonTech.com <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
@PatchonTech
www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
___________________________________________________