Comments for 2.2 SC Instructions for Custom Gestures or Movement (MATF Action 76)

Hi Jake, list
I have dealt with my action 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/actions/76 and commented 
the draft SC

2.2 SC Instructions for Custom Gestures or  Movement
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ouVFq4w-i0rchNHtTAG_JoRwHfYm9mN2MkxFBct1JSI/edit#heading=h.7dwp8clu8tbl

Detlev

Am 20.06.2019 um 20:03 schrieb Abma, J.D. (Jake):


>
> Also posted this one a week ago: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UEYHcAfOqg​
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 20, 2019 6:24 PM
> *To:* public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
> *Subject:* MATF Minutes June 20, 2019
> *MATF Minutes June 20, 2019 link: 
> https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
>
> *Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
>
>
>     20 Jun 2019
>
>
>     Attendees
>
> Present
>     MarcJohlic, jon_avila, Kim, Detlev, Jennifer, Jake 
> Regrets
>
> Chair
>     Kimberly_Patch 
> Scribe
>     Detlev 
>
>
>     Contents
>
>   * Topics
>     <https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
>      1. touch target spacing
>         <https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
>   * Summary of Action Items
>     <https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
>
>   * Summary of Resolutions
>     <https://www.w3.org/2019/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Kim: Apple announced iOS13
>
> <kim> TOPIC iOS13 update accessibility
>
> Jennifer: Promis that many things will be more accessible
> ... default font would be a Mac type
> ... pre-rogrammed accessibility labels
>
> <kim> https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13-preview/features/ 
> <https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13-preview/features/>
>
> Kim: Changes look significant
> ... more voice control options enabled
> ... historically you can't do much inside programs, so thi sis 
> building speech into the OS better
> ... with Siri you can do everything - use grid, show labels
> ... turn it on and off, even of. say label
> ... wil be good example of instructional text
> ... Text about a11y has changed under "even more"
> ...Marc: Voice options listed at the top of Accessibility now
>
> Jennifer: Will be easier to set up a11y settings out of the box
> ... Not so deeply nested, A11y now higher up the hierarchy
>
> Kim: Another good thing is text editing - more gestures
> ... haven't tried them yet
> ... also more keyboard shortcuts
>
> Detlev: Any improvement for keyboard access on iOS with external keyboard?
>
> Kim: iPad and iPhone split off, iPad haviong more options like opening 
> the desktop version of web sites
>
> Jennifer: Should be able to use voice control to assign gestures to a 
> voice command so you can execute gestures with voice
>
> Kim: dev version is out, not public
> ... Has been in the works a long time, looks like deeply integrated stuff
> ... Not sure how far "comprehensive voice operation" goes
> ... important would be to let users customise commands - not sure if 
> that is included
> ... possible on Mac, not sure if implemented also in iOS13
>
> Detlev: hopes keyboard operability on iOS has changed
>
> Jennifer: Android Q is out?
>
> Jon: confirms.
>
> Some new APIs
>
> <jon_avila> https://developer.android.com/preview/features 
> <https://developer.android.com/preview/features>
>
> Kim: Looks like it is all implemented (Android)
>
> Marc: Not lloking as robust
>
> Jon: Focus is more on other features (not a11y)
> ... a111y timeouts, shortcut stuff
>
> Kim: What are the things you want from mobile operating systems?
>
> Jennifer: friend tried Android phone, but could not use it
>
> Detlev: used to be more sluggish regarding gesture input
>
> Jake: report about a guy who was forced to use an Android device 
> because iphone was broken
> ..conclusion: if there was better Braille support his next phone would 
> be an Android device
>
> Jon: Voice Access (which used to be beta) ...
>
> Jake: does its job but not as good as iOS, maybe dwon to accent a bit
>
> <kim> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wRAViPfAJ4Ytqc71tGZp6gU07HNd2QQaNgtJsog-D90/edit#gid=124994642
>
> <kim> 
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Q9md2AvmeTgvsT9GB62BsGvCaalDGtE6
>
> Kim: Jake - is there stuff from last call (on gesture hints) - talk 
> more about it?
>
> Jake: Most changes were wording changes
>
> <kim> v
>
> <kim> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ouVFq4w-i0rchNHtTAG_JoRwHfYm9mN2MkxFBct1JSI/edit
>
> Detlev: apologies for not havign read it - promis to read!
>
> Jake: Input welcome
>
> <scribe> *ACTION:* Detlev read doc, give feedback
>
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-76 - Read doc, give feedback [on Detlev 
> Fischer - due 2019-06-27].
>
> <kim> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NEDLUWt_VFKtdHhcgm4j-ssWguSGeY8fhdSxm_41WzU/edit#heading=h.mntlv4jvrc29
>
> Kim: Portrait/ Landscape, different content
>
> <kim> TOPIC portrait/landscape
>
> <jon_avila> the essential part seems incorrect as it talks about gestures
>
> Jake: Not sure what the status of this doc is, could be an older version
> ... lets skip it for no and go to touch target
>
>
>       touch target spacing
>
> Jake: was discussed on call Tues
>
> Jon: reports concerns that touch target space between might not be 
> (easily) testable
>
> <kim> TOPIC concern about touch target testing
>
> Jake: Comments were pointing out that if you define layout via 
> percentages of flex not css pixels you might get different distances 
> so space will depend on viewport width etc.
> ... so measurement would involve things like screenshot, programatic 
> workout of positions seems not feasible
> ... inspector can in those cases not work out the distance
>
> Kim: So is this a roadblock - can we get around it?
>
> Jake: Cant see a solution apart form scoping to cases where offsets 
> are defined in picels
>
> Jon: Is this the same issue as with touch target size?
>
> Jake: No, that one is always measurable in pixels
>
> <jon_avila> I have to jump off. sorry
>
> Jake: Distance, if not defined in pixels, you can only guess - no 
> margins, paddings defined
>
> Kim: How often does this happen?
>
> Jake: The more these Techniques are used the more difficult it gets
> ... If it is not 100% testable we don't even need to ask that question 
> - asking Wilco will probably have the same result
> ... you can measure every pixel on screen but there are many variations
> ... screenshot-based will be very awkward
>
> Detlev (describing way of measuring)
>
> Jake: When elements are close it could be 5,7 8 pixels, difficult to judge
>
> Detlev: Use a ruler?
>
> Jake: give it a background, see the touch area - it is an option but 
> not easy
>
> Detlev: was linked with target size - uncoupled it is less valuable 
> (not as important for large targets)
>
> Jake: We can look for elements without background padding positioned 
> via flex / % we can ask people if they think it can be measured and 
> discuss
>
> Kim: Will we ask Wilco, will this be useful?
>
> Jake: We can ask him
>
> Kim: would be good
>
> Jake: Can ask him, send an email
>
> Detlev: Wondering if anything is in the works for single point 
> activation for swiping / dragging, also for SR users on mobile - if 
> not, we should try to put it in for 2.2
>
>
>     Summary of Action Items
>
> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Detlev read doc, give feedback
>
>
>     Summary of Resolutions
>
> [End of minutes]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David 
> Booth's scribe.perl 
> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> 
> version 1.154 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
> $Date: 2019/06/20 16:21:06 $
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________
>
> Kimberly Patch
>
> www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
> - making speech fly
>
> PatchonTech.com <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
> @PatchonTech
> www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
> ___________________________________________________
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