Re: MATF Minutes 16 February 2017

I think change of content should have been in the 8.
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/112

Anyway... I'll try to change the status from MATF to ad hoc...

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On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com> wrote:

> * MATF Minutes 16 February 2017 link: *
> *https://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
> <https://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html>*
>
> Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 16 Feb 2017
>
> See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-mobile-a11y-irc>
> Attendees
> Present Kathy, present, shadi, jon_avila, Kim, chriscm, Detlev, Jatin
> Regrets Chair Kathleen_Wahlbin Scribe Kim
> Contents
>
>    - Topics
>    <https://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
>       1. proposal about SCs and editors draft
>       <https://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
>    - Summary of Action Items
>    <https://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
>    - Summary of Resolutions
>    <https://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> <Kathy>
> <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3AMATF>
> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3AMATF
> proposal about SCs and editors draft
>
> Kathy: going through proposals – picking 10 that are at highest level of
> maturity to working group by end of day today to be included. Focus of this
> call to go through those items and see which ones we feel most strongly
> about. There are a few that we do have pull requests out already.
> ... when they going to pull requests they get a new number pull requests
> already – device sensoris 138
> ... other ones are single key shortcuts, touch with assistive technology,
> pointer gestures, no accidental activation and device sensors, change of
> content
> ... the ones we don't have pull requests on are orientation, target size,
> pointer, concurrent mechanism (pointer, concurrent mechanism may be can
> differ for now – will take more significant work to get them finalized)
> ... pointers with additional sensors which is the same basically as device
> sensors
> ... also speech input one and noninterference of AT
> ... two I was talking about for Detlev with is 62 and 61, pointer with
> sensors, pointer with additional gestures
>
> Detlev: I don't have them now but I can't assign myself
>
> Kathy: I can't assign either
>
> <Jatin> +present
>
> Kathy: the big question is which of these do we feel strongly about
> putting into the first release and which ones are we okay with not having
> in there
> ... 10 total – six already have four requests
> ... orientation and target size are almost done – 70 and 60.
> ... Pointer and concurrent mechanism I don't think we should worry about
> getting in – significant comments
>
> Detlev: keyboard one – maybe could be covered with note
>
> Kathy: I agree we could say that that one is something that we're going
> to do later, we visit for silver
> ... that leaves us pointer in puts additional sensors, speech
>
> <Jatin> can you please post the SC link?
>
> <Kathy> <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/132>
> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/132
>
> Kathy: this is pointer gestures
>
> Shadi: use widget called assignees to assign – are you seeing that
>
> Detlev: for me it looks like read-only information
>
> Shadi: click assignees – I can assign
>
> <Kathy> <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/132>
> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/132
>
> Detlev: tap right next to issues is pull request
> ... tricky thing from the testing point of view is you couldn't test this
> without having a mobile device
>
> Kathy: isn't that no different than having a desktop or laptop to work
> with a keyboard
>
> Detlev: it changes the game– they have to bring up something on mobile
> device, maybe several
>
> Kim: it's exactly what we want to encourage
>
> Chris: if you want to support mobile devices you have to test on mobile
> devices – that doesn't seem like a big issue to me
>
> Kathy: speech input and noninterference with assistive technology those
> are the two remaining ones
> ... noninterference assigned to Josh
> ... we've taken out pointer, concurrent mechanisms and keyboard with AT
>
> Kim: should have testers that can look across technologies
>
> Kathy: noninterference – you don't need to be extra with everything
>
> Detlev: like web design isn't using certain keyboard shortcuts because
> they know it's needed for AT
>
> Kathy: big example here use of role equals application
>
> Detlev: that's one technique
>
> Kathy: we could put this one in and put a note about it being potentially
> and get people's feedback and asked for a wider thing
> ... Lisa had suggested that this could be merged in with standard APIs
> number 46
>
> Chris: I was reading through standardized APIs 46 – short text at the top
> doesn't seem to match up but bottom description matches up perfectly
>
> Jon: my feeling is noninterference in there now is narrow so there does
> need to be something in there. but I do hear people say that the user agent
> issue. I've run into issues in the past where the page had too many
> elements so not responsive to AT
>
> Chris: there's very little about speech across the board, where the
> noninterference just trying to broaden
>
> <chriscm> Sorry all, have to drop off!
>
> <Kathy> Single key shortcut alternative Change of content Touch with
> Assistive Technology Pointer gestures No Accidental Activation Device
> sensors Orientation Target Size Pointer inputs with additional sensors
> Speech Input
>
> Kathy: here's the list of 10
>
> <Kathy> <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/2>
> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/2
>
> This one has a pull request – David put out there, we looked at it and
> commented it in the mobile task force. That was included in our 10 because
> it had a label of mobile in it, but it's not really a mobile one. So we
> could add noninterference of AT because that is not really a mobile one
>
> Kathy: does anyone have objections to this list of 10?
> ... that leaves out pointer, concurrent input mechanism, keyboard with AT
> and noninterference of AT would be left out – just at this time. they could
> all get in later
>
> no objections
>
> Kathy: I will go ahead and submit these to Andrew and Josh
> ... we don't have anybody doing speech input right now. Jon, could you do
> the pull request on it?
>
> Jon: I can do the pull request, but not anything else on it
>
> Kathy: Kim and I will try to keep up with comments on it if there are
>
> <Kathy> <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/68>
> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/68
>
> Kathy: speech input number 68
> ... is there anything in orientation that's here still outstanding?
>
> Jon: 4 issue was notification of change versus not clouding the issue by
> putting that in there as well
>
> Kathy: so I think we're in good shape for these 10
> ... does anybody have any concerns about comments on any of these 10
> ... important to look at these as a whole
> ... proposal that just came out to put SCs in working draft, marking as
> such, this would encourage comment
> ... what I heard from Andrew is just because something doesn't get into
> the first public working draft does not mean that it can't be added in later
>
> Shadi: my hope is that it will be linked – there are other ideas out
> there and maybe include links to github
>
> Kathy: this is one way to move forward. We've got one more meeting before
> CSUN
>
> Jon: yes – especially if you can also get a link in where other things
> are being discussed
>
> +1 to a link
>
> Jatin: 2.1.1 keyboard interfaces
>
> Kathy: no change to that. We have success criteria that were proposed
> relating to touch – touch with AT, target size, pointer gestures, pointers
> with additional sensors, all related
>
> Jatin: different methods of input – keyboard still applicable?
>
> Jon: we are still requiring that keyboard interface be present – doesn't
> have to be a physical keyboard. As an example in iOS you can turn on
> voiceover and turn on speech and iOS has a sticky key feature. By using
> that voiceover feature you can then access the device with the keyboard
> using voiceover – proved that it can be done through the keyboard interface
> even though it's not...
> ... supported...
> ... without the ATrunning.
> ... it needs to be there in order to support a wide variety of assistive
> technologies. We also want to be supported with assistive technologies.
> multiple interfaces available – you don't have to carry a keyboard – so
> users can choose what works best for them
>
> Kathy: are we saying we are recommending having a link or an appendix
> with all the other SCs, or to make a first draft on github so people can
> comment on them?
>
> Jon: definitely a link – maybe not an appendix. But in my opinion I would
> like to see a section – here are some ideas – then we could get more
> feedback. Because a lot of people are not going to follow the link. But I'm
> not sure there is agreement on that
>
> Kathy: making note about link
> ... I'll send out this list of 10 items to Josh. It looks like there's
> support for this. Thanks for all your help
> Summary of Action Items Summary of Resolutions [End of minutes]
> ------------------------------
> Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl
> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
> version 1.148 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
> $Date: 2017/02/16 17:05:02 $
>
> __________________________________________________
>
> Kimberly Patch
> President
> Redstart Systems
> (617) 325-3966
> kim@redstartsystems.com
>
> www.redstartsystems.com
> - making speech fly
>
> www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch
> ___________________________________________________
>