Re: MATF Minutes 17 November 2016

Late regrets due to a last minute meeting.

 

Henny

 

From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
Organization: Redstart Systems
Reply-To: <kim@redstartsystems.com>
Date: Thursday, 17 November 2016 at 17:17
To: "public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Subject: MATF Minutes 17 November 2016
Resent-From: <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 17:18:04 +0000

 

MATF Minutes 17 November 2016 link:  https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html

Text of minutes:
Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
17 Nov 2016
See also: IRC log
Attendees
Present

scribe, Jatin, chriscm, marcjohlic, Kathy, Kim, David, Shadi

Regrets

Detlev

Chair

Kathleen_Wahlbin

Scribe

Kim
Contents
·         Topics 

1.      M11

2.      M9

3.      M 16

·         Summary of Action Items

·         Summary of Resolutions

<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_Speech_Input

Kathy: M11 email thread on that this week
M11
Kathy: proposed change: All functionality of the content does not obstruct a user’s ability to access the commands through speech input.
... objections to changing language?

no objections.

<marcjohlic> Check if all functions designed for input can also be activated via speech

<davidmacdonald> having trouble getting in... will keep trying

I'll rewrite examples including hidden text, mismatched label, single key shortcuts reference and keyboard input reference

<davidmacdonald> I'm in now

Kathy: how to test

Kim: problem is hidden tags aren't appropriate for speech users – in a perfect world there would be a separate place for speech labels and uses would be able to hide them or not

Kathy: I've been talking to people at accessing higher ground and knowing checks for this. But we are proposing is to take the new language, put a link to the email thread and also note that this may be covered under 3.3.2 or 1.3.1 and have it in there is a note for the working group but submitted as is and let the working group decide what to do.
... if we are saying that this is something that is covered it is not apparent to experts I've talked to
... even checking to see that the visual label and accessible name are the same

David: if that's the problem I'd rather see that in a success criteria

Kathy: there's also problem with hidden text on the page. I gave the mismatch as a specific example
... if there is hidden text on a page you can accidentally activate things or do unintentional things

David: so that's when you're talking about obstructing – to me the label not matching the accessible aim doesn't act like an obstruction issue

Kathy: it obstructs someone from activating that button – they have to go around and use some of the other methods

David: when I read this and I think about obstruction I never think of a mismatched label

Kathy: that's why we are going to put that language in there – Kim is taking the first stab at rewriting this one – understanding language
... when I say you need to be keyboard accessible it doesn't go into all the details about you need to use this key. The understanding document is something that should be explaining what this is and what is required and the techniques help further to make it easier to understand
... do we make the success criteria really granular or do we have one that covers multiple things
... this is also now impacting mobile – androids new voice access – I accidentally activated things even though with the voice access all you're doing is saying a particular number
... voice access the new beta for the new version of android – there version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking on the android platform. You're doing everything by numbers. So it really reminds me of mouse was browsing plug-in – it's using that philosophy. You can also say things like scroll down scroll up. But you can do a lot by numbers. It also works on the web. So for users who use speech...
... input and what is now viable platform although I'm sure there are still issues. But you can actually do all functions now through speech.
... that's where we are on that one and we were just saying does anybody object.

David: I don't object. I'd like to see of the top four things are the top five things were trying to address, make it a little more understandable
... including but not limited to

Kathy: but what if there's a different way of doing it in the future – may be limiting

David: if we want to have something that actually lasts, or something new in two years

Kathy: mobile is changing right now. Android and iOS are actively working on it. So within a year, six months, within that time. We could have some major changes in that

David: sounds good

Kathy: any other thoughts, objections

RESOLUTION: Accept changed language for success criteria, submit to working group with a note to email thread about SC 3.3.2 and 1.3.1 for working group evaluation

Kim: speech input hidden text – if you say one of the words in hidden text you can accidentally activate – you have no idea what's happened

Kathy: it can be area label, hidden text within the button

David: this is like when you do the curb cuts in the blind people can't find the edge of the curb

Kathy: I think were going to have that across cognitive as well. We've always known that things you do can impact other users. One of the things that you are always balancing is looking at what is accessible for group of users – there are issues there that need to be addressed and is worth bringing to the attention of the working group. This is something that is not being addressed

<Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m9.md

David: talking about putting up a test page to show people how text works
M9
Kathy: we talked about this last week
... David, I know you talked about this one being very similar to the other one

David: there's the machine sensor and the screen sensor. I almost want to say without additional screen sensor permission

Kathy: the other one that we have was pointer inputs with additional sensors and then we have M10 – difference is touch.
... one requires the use of an additional thing that is not built into the device

David: you mean pressure sensitive touchscreens, tilt, twist

Kathy: long press, also scrolls down the screen thats covered under M9, I'm using either touch or stylus or other way

David: tilt of pointer, not tilt of device
... you want to say pointer tilt

Kathy: will change that

Marc: what about angle

David: tilt X – they have an image of it with the pointer tilting

Kim: device tilt, pointer tilt

Kathy: includes pressure, tilt, twist using a pointer
... pointer pressure, pointer tilt, pointer twist

Chris: just to clarify this is referring to things like styluses – all pointers
... someone who can't hold the stylus

Kathy: someone who can hold a stylus but can't tilt it
... one more meeting December 2 to finalize and make any last changes

<chriscm> Benefit: "Users who can hold a stylus, but lack dexterity to perform precise movements"

Kathy: next week no meeting because Thanksgiving iin US
... we need testability – suggest language for testability

Chris: specific exceptions for this?

Kathy: No

<davidmacdonald> test 1) test each function with a simple pointer (no pressure, tilt, ext of the pointer)

Kathy: we need to write how we would tested, but not the test procedure

<davidmacdonald> It should work without advanced pointer functions

Kathy: any other changes?

RESOLUTION: submit M9 as modified

<davidmacdonald> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/3

<Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/3
M 16
David: trying to provide notification usually through area live – spin things

Kathy: we've got pages busy, but how about page orientation – automatically switching from one page orientation to the other

David: is there any visual indicators of orientation switching

Kathy: fact that the screen is moving – usually showing it tilting

Chris: like an animation

Kathy: new UI interfaces where you have parallax – some of that is also visual indicators saying that there's something happening but it's not readily apparent – there's no programmatic notification of that – there's no way to get it if all you're doing is looking at the content on the page.

David: not thinking that there's something easy to put into this like page scrolling down makes you dizzy

Kathy: to me this is more notification of page changes
... daylong session a lot of comments came about portrait versus landscape – switching back and forth and the screen reader would talk about one thing and then it wouldn't be available in the next screen. It's the same issue as page loading.

David: adding or change of orientation

<marcjohlic> +1 approving it

<chriscm> +1

David: change of screen orientation

RESOLUTION: submit M16 as modified

Yes next meeting December 1, no meeting next week because it's US Thanksgiving
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
1.      Accept changed language for success criteria, submit to working group with a note to email thread about SC 3.3.2 and 1.3.1 for working group evaluation

2.      submit M9 as modified

3.      submit M16 as modified

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.148 (CVS log)
$Date: 2016/11/17 17:15:01 $ 

Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com

www.redstartsystems.com
- making speech fly

www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch
___________________________________________________