- From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
- Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 12:17:42 -0500
- To: "public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <582DE636.5070607@redstartsystems.com>
*MATF Minutes 17 November 2016 link:
**https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
Text of minutes:*
Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
17 Nov 2016
See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-irc>
Attendees
Present
scribe, Jatin, chriscm, marcjohlic, Kathy, Kim, David, Shadi
Regrets
Detlev
Chair
Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
Kim
Contents
* Topics <https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
1. M11 <https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
2. M9 <https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
3. M 16 <https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
* Summary of Action Items
<https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
* Summary of Resolutions
<https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_Speech_Input
Kathy: M11 email thread on that this week
M11
Kathy: proposed change: All functionality of the content does not
obstruct a users ability to access the commands through speech input.
... objections to changing language?
no objections.
<marcjohlic> Check if all functions designed for input can also be
activated via speech
<davidmacdonald> having trouble getting in... will keep trying
I'll rewrite examples including hidden text, mismatched label, single
key shortcuts reference and keyboard input reference
<davidmacdonald> I'm in now
Kathy: how to test
Kim: problem is hidden tags aren't appropriate for speech users in a
perfect world there would be a separate place for speech labels and uses
would be able to hide them or not
Kathy: I've been talking to people at accessing higher ground and
knowing checks for this. But we are proposing is to take the new
language, put a link to the email thread and also note that this may be
covered under 3.3.2 or 1.3.1 and have it in there is a note for the
working group but submitted as is and let the working group decide what
to do.
... if we are saying that this is something that is covered it is not
apparent to experts I've talked to
... even checking to see that the visual label and accessible name are
the same
David: if that's the problem I'd rather see that in a success criteria
Kathy: there's also problem with hidden text on the page. I gave the
mismatch as a specific example
... if there is hidden text on a page you can accidentally activate
things or do unintentional things
David: so that's when you're talking about obstructing to me the label
not matching the accessible aim doesn't act like an obstruction issue
Kathy: it obstructs someone from activating that button they have to
go around and use some of the other methods
David: when I read this and I think about obstruction I never think of a
mismatched label
Kathy: that's why we are going to put that language in there Kim is
taking the first stab at rewriting this one understanding language
... when I say you need to be keyboard accessible it doesn't go into all
the details about you need to use this key. The understanding document
is something that should be explaining what this is and what is required
and the techniques help further to make it easier to understand
... do we make the success criteria really granular or do we have one
that covers multiple things
... this is also now impacting mobile androids new voice access I
accidentally activated things even though with the voice access all
you're doing is saying a particular number
... voice access the new beta for the new version of android there
version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking on the android platform. You're
doing everything by numbers. So it really reminds me of mouse was
browsing plug-in it's using that philosophy. You can also say things
like scroll down scroll up. But you can do a lot by numbers. It also
works on the web. So for users who use speech...
... input and what is now viable platform although I'm sure there are
still issues. But you can actually do all functions now through speech.
... that's where we are on that one and we were just saying does anybody
object.
David: I don't object. I'd like to see of the top four things are the
top five things were trying to address, make it a little more understandable
... including but not limited to
Kathy: but what if there's a different way of doing it in the future
may be limiting
David: if we want to have something that actually lasts, or something
new in two years
Kathy: mobile is changing right now. Android and iOS are actively
working on it. So within a year, six months, within that time. We could
have some major changes in that
David: sounds good
Kathy: any other thoughts, objections
*RESOLUTION: Accept changed language for success criteria, submit to
working group with a note to email thread about SC 3.3.2 and 1.3.1 for
working group evaluation*
Kim: speech input hidden text if you say one of the words in hidden
text you can accidentally activate you have no idea what's happened
Kathy: it can be area label, hidden text within the button
David: this is like when you do the curb cuts in the blind people can't
find the edge of the curb
Kathy: I think were going to have that across cognitive as well. We've
always known that things you do can impact other users. One of the
things that you are always balancing is looking at what is accessible
for group of users there are issues there that need to be addressed
and is worth bringing to the attention of the working group. This is
something that is not being addressed
<Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m9.md
David: talking about putting up a test page to show people how text works
M9
Kathy: we talked about this last week
... David, I know you talked about this one being very similar to the
other one
David: there's the machine sensor and the screen sensor. I almost want
to say without additional screen sensor permission
Kathy: the other one that we have was pointer inputs with additional
sensors and then we have M10 difference is touch.
... one requires the use of an additional thing that is not built into
the device
David: you mean pressure sensitive touchscreens, tilt, twist
Kathy: long press, also scrolls down the screen thats covered under M9,
I'm using either touch or stylus or other way
David: tilt of pointer, not tilt of device
... you want to say pointer tilt
Kathy: will change that
Marc: what about angle
David: tilt X they have an image of it with the pointer tilting
Kim: device tilt, pointer tilt
Kathy: includes pressure, tilt, twist using a pointer
... pointer pressure, pointer tilt, pointer twist
Chris: just to clarify this is referring to things like styluses all
pointers
... someone who can't hold the stylus
Kathy: someone who can hold a stylus but can't tilt it
... one more meeting December 2 to finalize and make any last changes
<chriscm> Benefit: "Users who can hold a stylus, but lack dexterity to
perform precise movements"
Kathy: next week no meeting because Thanksgiving iin US
... we need testability suggest language for testability
Chris: specific exceptions for this?
Kathy: No
<davidmacdonald> test 1) test each function with a simple pointer (no
pressure, tilt, ext of the pointer)
Kathy: we need to write how we would tested, but not the test procedure
<davidmacdonald> It should work without advanced pointer functions
Kathy: any other changes?
*RESOLUTION: submit M9 as modified*
<davidmacdonald> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/3
<Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/3
M 16
David: trying to provide notification usually through area live spin
things
Kathy: we've got pages busy, but how about page orientation
automatically switching from one page orientation to the other
David: is there any visual indicators of orientation switching
Kathy: fact that the screen is moving usually showing it tilting
Chris: like an animation
Kathy: new UI interfaces where you have parallax some of that is also
visual indicators saying that there's something happening but it's not
readily apparent there's no programmatic notification of that
there's no way to get it if all you're doing is looking at the content
on the page.
David: not thinking that there's something easy to put into this like
page scrolling down makes you dizzy
Kathy: to me this is more notification of page changes
... daylong session a lot of comments came about portrait versus
landscape switching back and forth and the screen reader would talk
about one thing and then it wouldn't be available in the next screen.
It's the same issue as page loading.
David: adding or change of orientation
<marcjohlic> +1 approving it
<chriscm> +1
David: change of screen orientation
*RESOLUTION: submit M16 as modified*
Yes next meeting December 1, no meeting next week because it's US
Thanksgiving
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
1. Accept changed language for success criteria, submit to working
group with a note to email thread about SC 3.3.2 and 1.3.1 for
working group evaluation
<https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#resolution01>
2. submit M9 as modified
<https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#resolution02>
3. submit M16 as modified
<https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#resolution03>
[End of minutes]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl
<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
version 1.148 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
$Date: 2016/11/17 17:15:01 $
Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com <mailto:kim@redstartsystems.com>
www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly
www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
___________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 17 November 2016 17:18:02 UTC