RE: Rough draft of some success criteria for a extension guideline "Touch accessible"

It's this crazy Galaxy  and Gmail. It is hard to figure out who I'm
replying to in these grouped messages. Thanks. Alan
On Aug 17, 2015 1:16 PM, "Jonathan Avila" <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
wrote:

> Ø  Just to confirm. Are tablets with cellular or wifi in the mobile
> space? If so, I'm not sure about your statement that "where keyboard use is
> quit uncommon".
>
> I think it was David who said that.  And I agree with you Alan that
> Keyboard access is somewhat common in the mobile space.
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> --
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
>
> Phone 703.637.8957
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>
> *From:* ALAN SMITH [mailto:alands289@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2015 11:51 AM
> *To:* Jonathan Avila
> *Cc:* David MacDonald; Patrick H. Lauke; public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
> *Subject:* RE: Rough draft of some success criteria for a extension
> guideline "Touch accessible"
>
>
>
> Just to confirm. Are tablets with cellular or wifi in the mobile space? If
> so, I'm not sure about your statement that "where keyboard use is quit
> uncommon".
> Regards. Alan
>
> On Aug 17, 2015 11:40 AM, "Jonathan Avila" <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
> wrote:
>
> Ø  2.5.1 Touch: For pages and applications that support touch, all
> functionality of the content is operable through touch gestures with and
> without system assistive technology activated, without relying on pass
> through gestures on the system (Level A)
>
>
>
> But we still need an exception like we have for keyboard access for things
> like drawing and signatures, etc.  So we need to take into timing and
> paths, etc.  Except when the touch interactions requires specific timing or
> path....
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> --
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
>
> Phone 703.637.8957
> Follow us: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/#!/ssbbartgroup> | Twitter
> <http://twitter.com/#!/SSBBARTGroup> | LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/355266?trk=tyah> | Blog
> <http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog> | Newsletter <http://eepurl.com/O5DP>
>
>
>
> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2015 11:36 AM
> *To:* Patrick H. Lauke; public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org; Jonathan Avila
> *Subject:* Re: Rough draft of some success criteria for a extension
> guideline "Touch accessible"
>
>
>
> I agree...
>
> I think WCAG 2.1.1 already covers the need for keyboard use (without
> mouseKeys)... this would be an add on for the mobile space where keyboard
> use is quite uncommon. We could maybe plug the hole so the pass through
> gesture is not relied on by the author the same way we do in 2.1.1 not
> relying on MouseKeys..
>
> 2.5.1 Touch: For pages and applications that support touch, all
> functionality of the content is operable through touch gestures with and
> without system assistive technology activated, without relying on pass
> through gestures on the system (Level A)
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *CanAdapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902
>
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
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> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 7:48 AM, Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> On 17/08/2015 12:27, David MacDonald wrote:
>
>  >Patrick says: As it's not possible to recognise gestures when
> VoiceOver is enabled, as VO intercepts gestures for its own purposes
> (similar to how desktop AT intercept key presses) unless the user
> explicitly uses a pass-through gesture, does this imply that interfaces
> need to be made to also work just with an activation/double-tap ? i.e.,
> does double-tap count in this context as a "gesture"? If not, it's not
> technically possible for web pages to force pass-through (no equivalent
> to role="application" for desktop/keyboard handling)...
>
> David: VO uses gestures for its own purposes and then adds gestures to
> substitute for those it replaced i.e., VO 3 finger swipe= 1 finger
> swipe. I'm suggesting that everything that can be accomplished with VO
> off with gestures can be accomplished with VO on.
>
>
> Not completely, though. If I build my own gesture recognition from basic
> principles (tracking the various touchstart/touchmove/touchend events), the
> only way that gesture can be passed on to the JS when VO is activated is if
> the user performs a pass-through gesture, followed by the actual gesture
> I'm detecting via JS. Technically, this means that yes, even VO users can
> make any arbitrary gesture detected via JS, but in practice, it's - in my
> mind - more akin to mouse-keys (in that yes, a keyboard user can nominally
> use any mouse-specific interface by using mouse keys on their keyboard,
> just as a touch-AT user can perform any custom gesture...but it's more of a
> last resort, rather than standard operation).
>
> Also, not sure if Android/TalkBack, Windows Mobile/Narrator have these
> sorts of pass-through gestures (even for iOS/VO, it's badly documented...no
> mention of it that I could find on any official Apple sites).
>
> In short, to me this still makes it lean more towards providing all
> functionality in other, more traditional ways (which would then also work
> for mobile/tablet users with an external keyboard/keyboard-like interface).
> Gestures can be like shortcuts for touch users, but should not replace more
> traditional buttons/widgets, IMHO. This may be a user setting perhaps?
> Choose if the interface should just rely on touch gestures, or provide
> additional focusable/actionable controls?
>
>
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>
>
>