Re: Rough draft of some success criteria for a extension guideline "Touch accessible"

Agree on the keyboard discussion... Tablets and iPads etc ... Have lots of
keyboard... Which is covered in 2.1.1

Furthermore Detlev has a good start on the modified gesture issue

2.5.3 Modified Touch: When touch input behavior is modified by built-in
assistive technology, all functionality of the content is still operable
through touch gestures. (Level A)

On Monday, August 17, 2015, ALAN SMITH <alands289@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's this crazy Galaxy  and Gmail. It is hard to figure out who I'm
> replying to in these grouped messages. Thanks. Alan
> On Aug 17, 2015 1:16 PM, "Jonathan Avila" <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Ø  Just to confirm. Are tablets with cellular or wifi in the mobile
>> space? If so, I'm not sure about your statement that "where keyboard use is
>> quit uncommon".
>>
>> I think it was David who said that.  And I agree with you Alan that
>> Keyboard access is somewhat common in the mobile space.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Avila
>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>> SSB BART Group
>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com');>
>>
>> Phone 703.637.8957
>> Follow us: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/#!/ssbbartgroup> | Twitter
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>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ALAN SMITH [mailto:alands289@gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','alands289@gmail.com');>]
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2015 11:51 AM
>> *To:* Jonathan Avila
>> *Cc:* David MacDonald; Patrick H. Lauke; public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org');>
>> *Subject:* RE: Rough draft of some success criteria for a extension
>> guideline "Touch accessible"
>>
>>
>>
>> Just to confirm. Are tablets with cellular or wifi in the mobile space?
>> If so, I'm not sure about your statement that "where keyboard use is quit
>> uncommon".
>> Regards. Alan
>>
>> On Aug 17, 2015 11:40 AM, "Jonathan Avila" <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com');>> wrote:
>>
>> Ø  2.5.1 Touch: For pages and applications that support touch, all
>> functionality of the content is operable through touch gestures with and
>> without system assistive technology activated, without relying on pass
>> through gestures on the system (Level A)
>>
>>
>>
>> But we still need an exception like we have for keyboard access for
>> things like drawing and signatures, etc.  So we need to take into timing
>> and paths, etc.  Except when the touch interactions requires specific
>> timing or path....
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Avila
>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>> SSB BART Group
>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com');>
>>
>> Phone 703.637.8957
>> Follow us: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/#!/ssbbartgroup> | Twitter
>> <http://twitter.com/#!/SSBBARTGroup> | LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/355266?trk=tyah> | Blog
>> <http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog> | Newsletter <http://eepurl.com/O5DP>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','david100@sympatico.ca');>]
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2015 11:36 AM
>> *To:* Patrick H. Lauke; public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org');>; Jonathan
>> Avila
>> *Subject:* Re: Rough draft of some success criteria for a extension
>> guideline "Touch accessible"
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree...
>>
>> I think WCAG 2.1.1 already covers the need for keyboard use (without
>> mouseKeys)... this would be an add on for the mobile space where keyboard
>> use is quite uncommon. We could maybe plug the hole so the pass through
>> gesture is not relied on by the author the same way we do in 2.1.1 not
>> relying on MouseKeys..
>>
>> 2.5.1 Touch: For pages and applications that support touch, all
>> functionality of the content is operable through touch gestures with and
>> without system assistive technology activated, without relying on pass
>> through gestures on the system (Level A)
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>> *CanAdapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>
>> Tel:  613.235.4902
>>
>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>
>> www.Can-Adapt.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>>
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>>
>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 7:48 AM, Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','redux@splintered.co.uk');>> wrote:
>>
>> On 17/08/2015 12:27, David MacDonald wrote:
>>
>>  >Patrick says: As it's not possible to recognise gestures when
>> VoiceOver is enabled, as VO intercepts gestures for its own purposes
>> (similar to how desktop AT intercept key presses) unless the user
>> explicitly uses a pass-through gesture, does this imply that interfaces
>> need to be made to also work just with an activation/double-tap ? i.e.,
>> does double-tap count in this context as a "gesture"? If not, it's not
>> technically possible for web pages to force pass-through (no equivalent
>> to role="application" for desktop/keyboard handling)...
>>
>> David: VO uses gestures for its own purposes and then adds gestures to
>> substitute for those it replaced i.e., VO 3 finger swipe= 1 finger
>> swipe. I'm suggesting that everything that can be accomplished with VO
>> off with gestures can be accomplished with VO on.
>>
>>
>> Not completely, though. If I build my own gesture recognition from basic
>> principles (tracking the various touchstart/touchmove/touchend events), the
>> only way that gesture can be passed on to the JS when VO is activated is if
>> the user performs a pass-through gesture, followed by the actual gesture
>> I'm detecting via JS. Technically, this means that yes, even VO users can
>> make any arbitrary gesture detected via JS, but in practice, it's - in my
>> mind - more akin to mouse-keys (in that yes, a keyboard user can nominally
>> use any mouse-specific interface by using mouse keys on their keyboard,
>> just as a touch-AT user can perform any custom gesture...but it's more of a
>> last resort, rather than standard operation).
>>
>> Also, not sure if Android/TalkBack, Windows Mobile/Narrator have these
>> sorts of pass-through gestures (even for iOS/VO, it's badly documented...no
>> mention of it that I could find on any official Apple sites).
>>
>> In short, to me this still makes it lean more towards providing all
>> functionality in other, more traditional ways (which would then also work
>> for mobile/tablet users with an external keyboard/keyboard-like interface).
>> Gestures can be like shortcuts for touch users, but should not replace more
>> traditional buttons/widgets, IMHO. This may be a user setting perhaps?
>> Choose if the interface should just rely on touch gestures, or provide
>> additional focusable/actionable controls?
>>
>>
>>
>> P
>> --
>> Patrick H. Lauke
>>
>> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
>> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
>> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>>
>>
>>
>

-- 

Cheers,

David MacDonald



*Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*

Tel:  613.235.4902

LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>

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