RE: Rough draft of some success criteria for a extension guideline "Touch accessible"

Ø  Just to confirm. Are tablets with cellular or wifi in the mobile space? If so, I'm not sure about your statement that "where keyboard use is quit uncommon".

I think it was David who said that.  And I agree with you Alan that Keyboard access is somewhat common in the mobile space.

Jonathan

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From: ALAN SMITH [mailto:alands289@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 11:51 AM
To: Jonathan Avila
Cc: David MacDonald; Patrick H. Lauke; public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
Subject: RE: Rough draft of some success criteria for a extension guideline "Touch accessible"


Just to confirm. Are tablets with cellular or wifi in the mobile space? If so, I'm not sure about your statement that "where keyboard use is quit uncommon".
Regards. Alan
On Aug 17, 2015 11:40 AM, "Jonathan Avila" <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:

>  2.5.1 Touch: For pages and applications that support touch, all functionality of the content is operable through touch gestures with and without system assistive technology activated, without relying on pass through gestures on the system (Level A)

But we still need an exception like we have for keyboard access for things like drawing and signatures, etc.  So we need to take into timing and paths, etc.  Except when the touch interactions requires specific timing or path....

Jonathan

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Jonathan Avila
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From: David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 11:36 AM
To: Patrick H. Lauke; public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org<mailto:public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>; Jonathan Avila
Subject: Re: Rough draft of some success criteria for a extension guideline "Touch accessible"

I agree...

I think WCAG 2.1.1 already covers the need for keyboard use (without mouseKeys)... this would be an add on for the mobile space where keyboard use is quite uncommon. We could maybe plug the hole so the pass through gesture is not relied on by the author the same way we do in 2.1.1 not relying on MouseKeys..

2.5.1 Touch: For pages and applications that support touch, all functionality of the content is operable through touch gestures with and without system assistive technology activated, without relying on pass through gestures on the system (Level A)


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On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 7:48 AM, Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk<mailto:redux@splintered.co.uk>> wrote:
On 17/08/2015 12:27, David MacDonald wrote:
 >Patrick says: As it's not possible to recognise gestures when
VoiceOver is enabled, as VO intercepts gestures for its own purposes
(similar to how desktop AT intercept key presses) unless the user
explicitly uses a pass-through gesture, does this imply that interfaces
need to be made to also work just with an activation/double-tap ? i.e.,
does double-tap count in this context as a "gesture"? If not, it's not
technically possible for web pages to force pass-through (no equivalent
to role="application" for desktop/keyboard handling)...

David: VO uses gestures for its own purposes and then adds gestures to
substitute for those it replaced i.e., VO 3 finger swipe= 1 finger
swipe. I'm suggesting that everything that can be accomplished with VO
off with gestures can be accomplished with VO on.

Not completely, though. If I build my own gesture recognition from basic principles (tracking the various touchstart/touchmove/touchend events), the only way that gesture can be passed on to the JS when VO is activated is if the user performs a pass-through gesture, followed by the actual gesture I'm detecting via JS. Technically, this means that yes, even VO users can make any arbitrary gesture detected via JS, but in practice, it's - in my mind - more akin to mouse-keys (in that yes, a keyboard user can nominally use any mouse-specific interface by using mouse keys on their keyboard, just as a touch-AT user can perform any custom gesture...but it's more of a last resort, rather than standard operation).

Also, not sure if Android/TalkBack, Windows Mobile/Narrator have these sorts of pass-through gestures (even for iOS/VO, it's badly documented...no mention of it that I could find on any official Apple sites).

In short, to me this still makes it lean more towards providing all functionality in other, more traditional ways (which would then also work for mobile/tablet users with an external keyboard/keyboard-like interface). Gestures can be like shortcuts for touch users, but should not replace more traditional buttons/widgets, IMHO. This may be a user setting perhaps? Choose if the interface should just rely on touch gestures, or provide additional focusable/actionable controls?


P
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