W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-media-annotation@w3.org > January 2014

Re: [Minutes] 2014-01-13 Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

From: Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 09:11:55 +0100
Message-ID: <52D4F14B.50902@w3.org>
To: "public-media-annotation@w3.org" <public-media-annotation@w3.org>
Please ignore.
Wrong mailing list.

On 14/01/2014 09:07, Thierry MICHEL wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The minutes of the Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
> dated 2014-01-13 are now available at
>
> http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-01-13
>
> These public minutes are also linked  from the dpub wiki
> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Meetings
>
> Also find these minutes in a text version following, for your convenience.
>
> Best,
>
> Thierry Michel
>
>
> Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
>
> Minutes of 13 January 2014
>
>     Seen
>            [1]Alan Stearns, [2]Ben Ko, [3]Bert Bos, [4]Bill
>            Kasdorf, [5]Brady Duga, [6]Dave Cramer, [7]Dmitry
>            Shkolnik, [8]Frederick Hirsch, [9]Gerardo Capiel,
>            [10]Ivan Herman, [11]Jean Kaplansky, [12]Laura Fowler,
>            [13]Liam Quin, [14]Liza Daly, [15]Luc Audrain, [16]Madi
>            Solomon, [17]Markus Gylling, [18]Robert Sanderson,
>            [19]Sharad Garg, [20]Thierry Michel, [21]Tom De Nies,
>            [22]Tzviya Siegman, Unknown AWK, [23]Vladimir
>            Levantovsky
>
>        [1] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>        [2] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ben_Ko
>        [3] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bert_Bos
>        [4] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>        [5] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Brady_Duga
>        [6] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>        [7] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dmitry_Shkolnik
>        [8] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Frederick_Hirsch
>        [9] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Gerardo_Capiel
>       [10] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ivan_Herman
>       [11] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Jean_Kaplansky
>       [12] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Laura_Fowler
>       [13] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liam_Quin
>       [14] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>       [15] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Luc_Audrain
>       [16] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Madi_Solomon
>       [17] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>       [18] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>       [19] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Sharad_Garg
>       [20] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Thierry_Michel
>       [21] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tom_De_Nies
>       [22] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tzviya_Siegman
>       [23] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Vladimir_Levantovsky
>
>     Regrets
>            [24]Brady Duga, [25]Vladimir Levantovsky, [26]Laura
>            Fowler, [27]Jean Kaplansky
>
>       [24] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Brady_Duga
>       [25] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Vladimir_Levantovsky
>       [26] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Laura_Fowler
>       [27] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Jean_Kaplansky
>
>     Scribe
>            [28]Robert Sanderson
>
>       [28] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>
>     IRC Log
>            [29]Original
>
>       [29] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/13-dpub-irc
>
>     Resolutions
>            None.
>
>     Topics
>
> 15:41:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/13-dpub-irc
>
>     RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to
>     [30]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/13-dpub-irc [31]←
> 15:41:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
>
>       [30] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/13-dpub-irc
>
>     Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public [32]←
> 15:41:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
>
>     Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be dpub [33]←
> 15:41:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to s
> tart in 19 minutes
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM
>     scheduled to start in 19 minutes [34]←
> 15:41:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconfe
> rence
> 15:41:10 <trackbot> Date: 13 January 2014
> 15:51:42 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
>
>     (No events recorded for 10 minutes)
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started [35]←
> 15:51:49 <Zakim> +Liza
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +Liza [36]←
> 15:53:59 <Zakim> +dauwhe
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +dauwhe [37]←
> 15:54:24 <azaroth> I can scribe today?
>
>     [38]Robert Sanderson: I can scribe today? [39]←
> 15:55:05 <Zakim> +azaroth
>
>       [38] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +azaroth [40]←
> 15:57:36 <Zakim> +Tzviya
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +Tzviya [41]←
> 15:57:58 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
>
>     [42]Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip [43]←
> 15:57:58 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
>
>       [42] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ivan_Herman
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made [44]←
> 15:58:00 <Zakim> +Ivan
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan [45]←
> 15:58:31 <ivan> Regrets: Vlad, Laura, Brady
> 15:59:21 <Zakim> +Stearns
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns [46]←
> 15:59:42 <Zakim> +??P37
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37 [47]←
> 15:59:51 <mgylling> zakim, ??P37 is me
>
>     [48]Markus Gylling: zakim, ??P37 is me [49]←
> 15:59:51 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
>
>       [48] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +mgylling; got it [50]←
> 15:59:59 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf [51]←
> 16:00:23 <lizadaly> I hear plenty of beeping
>
>     [52]Liza Daly: I hear plenty of beeping [53]←
> 16:01:13 <Zakim> +Bert
>
>       [52] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +Bert [54]←
> 16:01:19 <Zakim> +laudrain
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +laudrain [55]←
> 16:01:34 <Zakim> +benjaminsko
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +benjaminsko [56]←
> 16:01:39 <dauwhe> Is the conference line actually working? I've heard no
>   human voices.
>
>     [57]Dave Cramer: Is the conference line actually working? I've
>     heard no human voices. [58]←
> 16:01:43 <Zakim> +??P48
>
>       [57] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +??P48 [59]←
> 16:01:56 <lizadaly> I just say 'hello' but heard nothing back
>
>     [60]Liza Daly: I just say 'hello' but heard nothing back [61]←
> 16:02:02 <lizadaly> so I guess that's a 'no'
>
>       [60] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     [62]Liza Daly: so I guess that's a 'no' [63]←
> 16:02:02 <Zakim> +AWK
>
>       [62] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +AWK [64]←
> 16:02:03 <gcapiel> Zakim, ??P48 is me
>
>     [65]Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, ??P48 is me [66]←
> 16:02:03 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it
>
>       [65] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Gerardo_Capiel
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +gcapiel; got it [67]←
> 16:02:05 <dauwhe> I've heard nothing.
>
>     [68]Dave Cramer: I've heard nothing. [69]←
> 16:02:14 <azaroth> Other than beeps
>
>       [68] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [70]Robert Sanderson: Other than beeps [71]←
> 16:02:15 <ivan> heh neither do I
>
>       [70] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>
>     [72]Ivan Herman: heh neither do I [73]←
> 16:02:24 <mgylling> /me its a tibetan-style concall this week
>
>       [72] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ivan_Herman
>
>     [74]Markus Gylling: /me its a tibetan-style concall this week
>     [75]←
> 16:02:26 <Luc> neither do i
>
>       [74] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [76]Luc Audrain: neither do i [77]←
> 16:02:27 <Zakim> -AWK
>
>       [76] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Luc_Audrain
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -AWK [78]←
> 16:02:28 <lizadaly> I assume Markus is just bored
>
>     [79]Liza Daly: I assume Markus is just bored [80]←
> 16:02:57 <Zakim> +AWK
>
>       [79] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +AWK [81]←
> 16:03:09 <dauwhe> Zakim, wtf?
>
>     [82]Dave Cramer: Zakim, wtf? [83]←
> 16:03:09 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, dauwhe.
>
>       [82] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, dauwhe. [84]←
> 16:03:15 <ivan> :-)
>
>     [85]Ivan Herman: :-) [86]←
> 16:03:22 <mgylling> Zakim, get your friggin act together
>
>       [85] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ivan_Herman
>
>     [87]Markus Gylling: Zakim, get your friggin act together [88]←
> 16:03:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'get your friggin act together', mgy
> lling
>
>       [87] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'get your friggin act
>     together', mgylling [89]←
> 16:03:24 <lizadaly> Zakim has a case of the Mondays
>
>     [90]Liza Daly: Zakim has a case of the Mondays [91]←
> 16:03:25 <azaroth> zakim, who is making noise?
>
>       [90] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     [92]Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is making noise? [93]←
> 16:03:27 <Zakim> +Sharad_Garg
>
>       [92] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +Sharad_Garg [94]←
> 16:03:28 <Zakim> +[Ugent]
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +[Ugent] [95]←
> 16:03:36 <Zakim> azaroth, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify
> any sounds
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth, listening for 10 seconds I could not
>     identify any sounds [96]←
> 16:03:36 <TomDN> Zakim, [Ugent] is me
>
>     [97]Tom De Nies: Zakim, [Ugent] is me [98]←
> 16:03:37 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it
>
>       [97] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tom_De_Nies
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN; got it [99]←
> 16:03:42 <TomDN> zakim, mute me
>
>     [100]Tom De Nies: zakim, mute me [101]←
> 16:03:42 <Zakim> TomDN was already muted, TomDN
>
>      [100] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tom_De_Nies
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN was already muted, TomDN [102]←
> 16:03:42 <azaroth> zakim, correct :(
>
>     [103]Robert Sanderson: zakim, correct :( [104]←
> 16:03:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'correct :(', azaroth
>
>      [103] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'correct :(', azaroth [105]←
> 16:03:53 <mgylling> ivan, should we restart or sth?
>
>     [106]Markus Gylling: ivan, should we restart or sth? [107]←
> 16:03:56 <azaroth> zakim, unmute me
>
>      [106] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [108]Robert Sanderson: zakim, unmute me [109]←
> 16:03:57 <Zakim> azaroth should no longer be muted
>
>      [108] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth should no longer be muted [110]←
> 16:04:05 <lizadaly> Hear that!
>
>     [111]Liza Daly: Hear that! [112]←
> 16:04:10 <mgylling> zakim, unmute me
>
>      [111] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     [113]Markus Gylling: zakim, unmute me [114]←
> 16:04:10 <Zakim> mgylling should no longer be muted
>
>      [113] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: mgylling should no longer be muted [115]←
> 16:04:13 <lizadaly> zakim, unmute me
>
>     [116]Liza Daly: zakim, unmute me [117]←
> 16:04:13 <Zakim> sorry, lizadaly, I do not know which phone connection b
> elongs to you
>
>      [116] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, lizadaly, I do not know which phone
>     connection belongs to you [118]←
> 16:04:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> I can hear now
>
>     [119]Bill Kasdorf: I can hear now [120]←
> 16:04:31 <TomDN> Zakim, who is on the phone?
>
>      [119] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [121]Tom De Nies: Zakim, who is on the phone? [122]←
> 16:04:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Liza (muted), dauwhe (muted), azarot
> h, Tzviya (muted), Ivan (muted), Stearns (muted), mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf
>   (muted), Bert (muted), laudrain (muted), benjaminsko
>
>      [121] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tom_De_Nies
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Liza (muted), dauwhe (muted),
>     azaroth, Tzviya (muted), Ivan (muted), Stearns (muted),
>     mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf (muted), Bert (muted), laudrain (muted),
>     benjaminsko [123]←
> 16:04:35 <Zakim> ... (muted), gcapiel (muted), AWK (muted), Sharad_Garg
> (muted), TomDN (muted)
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), gcapiel (muted), AWK (muted),
>     Sharad_Garg (muted), TomDN (muted) [124]←
> 16:04:39 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
>
>     [125]Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me [126]←
> 16:04:39 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
>
>      [125] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ivan_Herman
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted [127]←
> 16:04:41 <dauwhe> Zakim, unmute me
>
>     [128]Dave Cramer: Zakim, unmute me [129]←
> 16:04:42 <Zakim> dauwhe should no longer be muted
>
>      [128] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: dauwhe should no longer be muted [130]←
> 16:04:42 <mgylling> zakim, umnmute all
>
>     [131]Markus Gylling: zakim, umnmute all [132]←
> 16:04:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'umnmute all', mgylling
>
>      [131] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'umnmute all', mgylling
>     [133]←
> 16:04:46 <astearns> zakim, unmute me
>
>     [134]Alan Stearns: zakim, unmute me [135]←
> 16:04:46 <Zakim> sorry, astearns, I do not know which phone connection b
> elongs to you
>
>      [134] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, astearns, I do not know which phone
>     connection belongs to you [136]←
> 16:04:48 <lizadaly> How do I tell it which line I'm on?
>
>     [137]Liza Daly: How do I tell it which line I'm on? [138]←
> 16:04:50 <Luc> zakim, unmute me
>
>      [137] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     [139]Luc Audrain: zakim, unmute me [140]←
> 16:04:50 <Zakim> sorry, Luc, I do not know which phone connection belong
> s to you
>
>      [139] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Luc_Audrain
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Luc, I do not know which phone connection
>     belongs to you [141]←
> 16:04:57 <azaroth> zakim, unmute sharad_garg
>
>     [142]Robert Sanderson: zakim, unmute sharad_garg [143]←
> 16:04:57 <Zakim> Sharad_Garg should no longer be muted
>
>      [142] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: Sharad_Garg should no longer be muted [144]←
> 16:04:58 <astearns> zakim, unmute stearns
>
>     [145]Alan Stearns: zakim, unmute stearns [146]←
> 16:04:58 <Zakim> Stearns should no longer be muted
>
>      [145] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: Stearns should no longer be muted [147]←
> 16:05:06 <gcapiel> Zakim, unmute MemoServ
>
>     [148]Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, unmute MemoServ [149]←
> 16:05:08 <Zakim> sorry, gcapiel, I do not know which phone connection be
> longs to MemoServ
>
>      [148] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Gerardo_Capiel
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, gcapiel, I do not know which phone
>     connection belongs to MemoServ [150]←
> 16:05:08 <dshkolnik> Zakim, unmute
>
>     [151]Dmitry Shkolnik: Zakim, unmute [152]←
> 16:05:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmute', dshkolnik
>
>      [151] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dmitry_Shkolnik
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'unmute', dshkolnik [153]←
> 16:05:15 <ivan> zakim, unmute lizadaly
>
>     [154]Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute lizadaly [155]←
> 16:05:15 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not know which phone connection belon
> gs to lizadaly
>
>      [154] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ivan_Herman
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ivan, I do not know which phone
>     connection belongs to lizadaly [156]←
> 16:05:16 <azaroth> zakim, unmute tzviya
>
>     [157]Robert Sanderson: zakim, unmute tzviya [158]←
> 16:05:16 <Zakim> Tzviya should no longer be muted
>
>      [157] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: Tzviya should no longer be muted [159]←
> 16:05:19 <dshkolnik> Zakim, unmute me
>
>     [160]Dmitry Shkolnik: Zakim, unmute me [161]←
> 16:05:19 <Zakim> sorry, dshkolnik, I do not know which phone connection
> belongs to you
>
>      [160] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dmitry_Shkolnik
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, dshkolnik, I do not know which phone
>     connection belongs to you [162]←
> 16:05:21 <Bill_Kasdorf> I mute and unmute locally. Since I can hear, do
> I need to unmute on Zakim?
>
>     [163]Bill Kasdorf: I mute and unmute locally. Since I can hear,
>     do I need to unmute on Zakim? [164]←
> 16:05:23 <gcapiel> Zakim, unmute me
>
>      [163] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [165]Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, unmute me [166]←
> 16:05:23 <Zakim> gcapiel should no longer be muted
>
>      [165] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Gerardo_Capiel
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: gcapiel should no longer be muted [167]←
> 16:05:29 <azaroth> zakim, who is on the phone
>
>     [168]Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is on the phone [169]←
> 16:05:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', azaroth
>
>      [168] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is on the phone',
>     azaroth [170]←
> 16:05:40 <azaroth> zakim, who is on the phone?
>
>     [171]Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is on the phone? [172]←
> 16:05:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Liza (muted), dauwhe, azaroth, Tzviy
> a, Ivan, Stearns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf (muted), Bert, laudrain, benjam
> insko (muted), gcapiel, AWK (muted), Sharad_Garg,
>
>      [171] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Liza (muted), dauwhe,
>     azaroth, Tzviya, Ivan, Stearns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf (muted),
>     Bert, laudrain, benjaminsko (muted), gcapiel, AWK (muted),
>     Sharad_Garg, [173]←
> 16:05:43 <Zakim> ... TomDN (muted)
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: ... TomDN (muted) [174]←
> 16:05:47 <Zakim> +tm
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +tm [175]←
> 16:05:55 <azaroth> scribe: azaroth
>
>     (Scribe set to [176]Robert Sanderson)
> 16:05:56 <Liza> zakim, unmute me
>
>      [176] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Robert_Sanderson
>
>     [177]Liza Daly: zakim, unmute me [178]←
> 16:05:56 <Zakim> Liza should no longer be muted
>
>      [177] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: Liza should no longer be muted [179]←
> 16:06:02 <Liza> BOOM
>
>     [180]Liza Daly: BOOM [181]←
> 16:06:05 <tmichel> zakim, tm is tmichel
>
>      [180] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     [182]Thierry Michel: zakim, tm is tmichel [183]←
> 16:06:05 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
>
>      [182] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Thierry_Michel
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +tmichel; got it [184]←
> 16:06:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> How?
>
>     [185]Bill Kasdorf: How? [186]←
> 16:06:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
>
>      [185] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] [187]←
> 16:06:15 <fjh> zakim, IPcaller is me
>
>     [188]Frederick Hirsch: zakim, IPcaller is me [189]←
> 16:06:15 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
>
>      [188] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Frederick_Hirsch
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it [190]←
> 16:06:21 <azaroth> zakim, who is making noise?
>
>     zakim, who is making noise? [191]←
> 16:06:26 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
>
>     [192]Frederick Hirsch: zakim, who is here? [193]←
> 16:06:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see Liza, dauwhe, azaroth, Tzviya, Ivan,
>   Stearns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf (muted), Bert, laudrain, benjaminsko (m
> uted), gcapiel, AWK, Sharad_Garg, TomDN (muted),
>
>      [192] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Frederick_Hirsch
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Liza, dauwhe, azaroth,
>     Tzviya, Ivan, Stearns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf (muted), Bert,
>     laudrain, benjaminsko (muted), gcapiel, AWK, Sharad_Garg, TomDN
>     (muted), [194]←
> 16:06:30 <Zakim> ... tmichel (muted), fjh (muted)
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: ... tmichel (muted), fjh (muted) [195]←
> 16:06:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see TomDN, Sharad, benjaminsko, dshkolnik, Ber
> t, gcapiel, fjh, Bill_Kasdorf, mgylling, Luc, tzviya, Liza, azaroth, Zak
> im, RRSAgent, tmichel, ivan, dauwhe, plinss,
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see TomDN, Sharad, benjaminsko,
>     dshkolnik, Bert, gcapiel, fjh, Bill_Kasdorf, mgylling, Luc,
>     tzviya, Liza, azaroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, tmichel, ivan, dauwhe,
>     plinss, [196]←
> 16:06:30 <Zakim> ... astearns, liam, trackbot
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: ... astearns, liam, trackbot [197]←
> 16:06:31 <Zakim> azaroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from th
> e following: dauwhe (4%), Ivan (25%), laudrain (42%)
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound
>     from the following: dauwhe (4%), Ivan (25%), laudrain (42%)
>     [198]←
> 16:07:01 <fjh> zakim, unmute me
>
>     [199]Frederick Hirsch: zakim, unmute me [200]←
> 16:07:01 <Zakim> fjh should no longer be muted
>
>      [199] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Frederick_Hirsch
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: fjh should no longer be muted [201]←
> 16:07:05 <Zakim> +Liam
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +Liam [202]←
> 16:07:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> 60#
>
>     [203]Bill Kasdorf: 60# [204]←
> 16:07:43 <azaroth> Markus:  As we decided last week, another week on Lat
> inReq focus.  We ended the last call thinking we scratched the surface,
> so will continue another week
>
>      [203] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [205]Markus Gylling: As we decided last week, another week on
>     LatinReq focus. We ended the last call thinking we scratched
>     the surface, so will continue another week [206]←
> 16:07:59 <azaroth> ... before we do that we need to approve previous mee
> tings minutes
>
>      [205] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     ... before we do that we need to approve previous meetings
>     minutes [207]←
> 16:08:06 <azaroth> ... Approved
>
>     ... Approved [208]←
> 16:08:44 <azaroth> Ivan: An admin thing before we start, I just want to
> warn you that we had a security breach at W3C.
>
>     [209]Ivan Herman: An admin thing before we start, I just want
>     to warn you that we had a security breach at W3C. [210]←
> 16:08:53 <azaroth> ... at some point you may be asked to change your pas
> sword.
>
>      [209] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ivan_Herman
>
>     ... at some point you may be asked to change your password.
>     [211]←
> 16:09:15 <azaroth> ... When you try to log in to a member restricted are
> a, you'll be asked to change.  We're testing the system now with the tea
> m.
>
>     ... When you try to log in to a member restricted area, you'll
>     be asked to change. We're testing the system now with the team.
>     [212]←
> 16:09:29 <azaroth> ???: When we see that, we should just go ahead and ch
> ange it?
>
>     [213]Frederick Hirsch: When we see that, we should just go
>     ahead and change it? [214]←
> 16:09:40 <fjh> s/???/fjh/
> 16:09:43 <azaroth> Ivan: Yes, you can postpone for two weeks, but will n
> eed to do it at some point
>
>      [213] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Frederick_Hirsch
>
>     [215]Ivan Herman: Yes, you can postpone for two weeks, but will
>     need to do it at some point [216]←
> 16:10:02 <azaroth> Markus: Dave, can you give a quick recap of what we c
> overed last week to get back into the mode?
>
>      [215] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ivan_Herman
>
>     [217]Markus Gylling: Dave, can you give a quick recap of what
>     we covered last week to get back into the mode? [218]←
> 16:10:41 <azaroth> dauwhe: I droned on about dropcaps for a while, some
> low hanging fruit for CSS. talked about some issues people are having in
>   ebook systems, such as hyphenation and justification
>
>      [217] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [219]Dave Cramer: I droned on about dropcaps for a while, some
>     low hanging fruit for CSS. talked about some issues people are
>     having in ebook systems, such as hyphenation and justification
>     [220]←
> 16:11:08 <azaroth> ... We talked about image and caption sizing, quite a
>   bit about various efforts to bring typographic sophistication to the we
> b.
>
>      [219] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... We talked about image and caption sizing, quite a bit about
>     various efforts to bring typographic sophistication to the web.
>     [221]←
> 16:11:46 <azaroth> ... On Sunday I updated latinreq document, alan sent
> a nice intro text on grids.  Added a section about justification and hyp
> henation, as a concern for a lot of us.
>
>     ... On Sunday I updated latinreq document, alan sent a nice
>     intro text on grids. Added a section about justification and
>     hyphenation, as a concern for a lot of us. [222]←
> 16:12:03 <azaroth> ... so I thought today we could talk about that this
> week, and about grids and underlying issues they may solve
>
>     ... so I thought today we could talk about that this week, and
>     about grids and underlying issues they may solve [223]←
> 16:12:19 <azaroth> ... Just sent the list a detailed email about table a
> lignment.
>
>     ... Just sent the list a detailed email about table alignment.
>     [224]←
> 16:12:28 <azaroth> ... Anything I forgot to mention?
>
>     ... Anything I forgot to mention? [225]←
> 16:12:41 <Zakim> +madi
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: +madi [226]←
> 16:13:00 <azaroth> Markus: We had email thread from last week where ben
> and luke posted some issues.  Felt to me like if we cover table alignmen
> t and so on today, that's a good amount
>
>     [227]Markus Gylling: We had email thread from last week where
>     ben and luke posted some issues. Felt to me like if we cover
>     table alignment and so on today, that's a good amount [228]←
> 16:13:17 <azaroth> ... tell us about H. and Justi~n and where we should
> end up?
>
>      [227] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     ... tell us about H. and Justi~n and where we should end up?
>     [229]←
> 16:13:42 <astearns> dauwhe: could you post latinreq URL? The task force
> wiki page has the wrong link.
>
>     [230]Dave Cramer: could you post latinreq URL? The task force
>     wiki page has the wrong link. [ Scribe Assist by [231]Alan
>     Stearns ] [232]←
> 16:13:54 <azaroth> Dave: A couple of things.  I wonder if we're at the p
> oint where we or some other group need to be detailed about what we want
>   to see. What does it mean for a book reading system to do a good job wi
> th the text
>
>      [230] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>      [231] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     [233]Dave Cramer: A couple of things. I wonder if we're at the
>     point where we or some other group need to be detailed about
>     what we want to see. What does it mean for a book reading
>     system to do a good job with the text [234]←
> 16:13:56 <dauwhe> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/index.html
>
>      [233] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [235]Dave Cramer:
>     [236]http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/index.html [237]←
> 16:14:00 <tzviya> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/
>
>      [235] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>      [236] http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/index.html
>
>     [238]Tzviya Siegman: [239]http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/
>     [240]←
> 16:14:41 <azaroth> ... so one possibility on Hypenation... a lot depends
>   on dictionaries.  Had experience with good and bad ones. Is it possible
>   to say which is good or not so good with various languages?
>
>      [238] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tzviya_Siegman
>      [239] http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/
>
>     ... so one possibility on Hypenation... a lot depends on
>     dictionaries. Had experience with good and bad ones. Is it
>     possible to say which is good or not so good with various
>     languages? [241]←
> 16:14:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
>
>     [242]Bill Kasdorf: q+ [243]←
> 16:14:44 <tzviya> q+
>
>      [242] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [244]Tzviya Siegman: q+ [245]←
> 16:15:05 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
>
>      [244] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tzviya_Siegman
>
>     [246]Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf [247]←
> 16:15:06 <azaroth> ... could contribute best practices on how to build i
> t into rendering engine
>
>      [246] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     ... could contribute best practices on how to build it into
>     rendering engine [248]←
> 16:15:31 <azaroth> Bill_Kasdorf: In a lot of disciplines there are speci
> alized dictionaries needed, due to terminology
>
>     [249]Bill Kasdorf: In a lot of disciplines there are
>     specialized dictionaries needed, due to terminology [250]←
> 16:15:37 <liam> +1
>
>      [249] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [251]Liam Quin: +1 [252]←
> 16:15:45 <azaroth> ... some way to accommodate this is important, esp fo
> r medical.
>
>      [251] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liam_Quin
>
>     ... some way to accommodate this is important, esp for medical.
>     [253]←
> 16:15:55 <azaroth> Dave: At individual title level, exception dict is im
> portant
>
>     [254]Dave Cramer: At individual title level, exception dict is
>     important [255]←
> 16:16:21 <azaroth> ... per file or copy, the dictionary is a critical pi
> ece to supply hyphenation exceptions
>
>      [254] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... per file or copy, the dictionary is a critical piece to
>     supply hyphenation exceptions [256]←
> 16:16:34 <azaroth> Markus:  To understand, the document provider should
> declare which dict to use?
>
>     [257]Markus Gylling: To understand, the document provider
>     should declare which dict to use? [258]←
> 16:16:53 <azaroth> Bill: In addition to the built in, should use Steadma
> n's medical dictionary as authority for hypen~n
>
>      [257] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [259]Bill Kasdorf: In addition to the built in, should use
>     Steadman's medical dictionary as authority for hypen~n [260]←
> 16:17:10 <Luc> q+
>
>      [259] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [261]Luc Audrain: q+ [262]←
> 16:17:17 <azaroth> ... sometimes a publisher will have an individual lis
> t of words it knows will be problematic in a title and provide list of d
> ozen such terms
>
>      [261] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Luc_Audrain
>
>     ... sometimes a publisher will have an individual list of words
>     it knows will be problematic in a title and provide list of
>     dozen such terms [263]←
> 16:17:27 <azaroth> Markus:  So not in a dictionary, local to the particu
> lar title
>
>     [264]Markus Gylling: So not in a dictionary, local to the
>     particular title [265]←
> 16:17:28 <azaroth> q+
>
>      [264] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     q+ [266]←
> 16:17:45 <azaroth> Dave: various systems have ways to enter new terms to
>   override
>
>     [267]Dave Cramer: various systems have ways to enter new terms
>     to override [268]←
> 16:17:56 <mgylling> ack tzviya
>
>      [267] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [269]Markus Gylling: ack tzviya [270]←
> 16:17:58 <azaroth> Markus: Sounds like 2 clear requirements to formulate
>
>      [269] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [271]Markus Gylling: Sounds like 2 clear requirements to
>     formulate [272]←
> 16:18:26 <azaroth> Tzviuya: Same as BIl, but as we get into more advance
> d fields, need expanded on. Medicine is broad, but grad level chemistry
> things get complicated
>
>      [271] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [273]Tzviya Siegman: Same as BIl, but as we get into more
>     advanced fields, need expanded on. Medicine is broad, but grad
>     level chemistry things get complicated [274]←
> 16:18:27 <mgylling> ack Liam
>
>      [273] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tzviya_Siegman
>
>     [275]Markus Gylling: ack Liam [276]←
> 16:18:28 <Zakim> Liam, you wanted to note it may vary within a document
>
>      [275] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: Liam, you wanted to note it may vary within a
>     document [277]←
> 16:18:55 <azaroth> Liam: Live in a multilingual web, and multidiscipline
> .  Might need multiple dictionaries for a single document
>
>     [278]Liam Quin: Live in a multilingual web, and
>     multidiscipline. Might need multiple dictionaries for a single
>     document [279]←
> 16:19:04 <azaroth> ... saw this with print publications in 80s
>
>      [278] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liam_Quin
>
>     ... saw this with print publications in 80s [280]←
> 16:19:20 <azaroth> Markus: Any effort in W3C in this area so far?
>
>     [281]Markus Gylling: Any effort in W3C in this area so far?
>     [282]←
> 16:19:32 <azaroth> Liam: Nothing beyond what we did in XSL FO.
>
>      [281] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [283]Liam Quin: Nothing beyond what we did in XSL FO. [284]←
> 16:19:39 <azaroth> q-
>
>      [283] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liam_Quin
>
>     q- [285]←
> 16:20:05 <azaroth> Dave: Is there a standard for even describing hypen~n
>   like TeX style that aren't easy to understand
>
>     [286]Dave Cramer: Is there a standard for even describing
>     hypen~n like TeX style that aren't easy to understand [287]←
> 16:20:09 <azaroth> Liam: Not aware of any
>
>      [286] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [288]Liam Quin: Not aware of any [289]←
> 16:20:20 <azaroth> ... eg words in German that change spelling when you
> hypenate them
>
>      [288] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liam_Quin
>
>     ... eg words in German that change spelling when you hypenate
>     them [290]←
> 16:20:25 <azaroth> ... might be in OpenOffice
>
>     ... might be in OpenOffice [291]←
> 16:20:30 <mgylling> ack Luc
>
>     [292]Markus Gylling: ack Luc [293]←
> 16:20:53 <azaroth> Luc: Proper way to solve this is perhaps to rely on h
> ypen~n inside the text
>
>      [292] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [294]Luc Audrain: Proper way to solve this is perhaps to rely
>     on hypen~n inside the text [295]←
> 16:21:14 <azaroth> ... in a limited environment could be possible to pre
> pare text with the special words / preferred hypenation
>
>      [294] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Luc_Audrain
>
>     ... in a limited environment could be possible to prepare text
>     with the special words / preferred hypenation [296]←
> 16:21:15 <astearns> so far, all CSS says about hyphenation dictionaries
> is that the user agent must choose a language appropriate resource
>
>     [297]Alan Stearns: so far, all CSS says about hyphenation
>     dictionaries is that the user agent must choose a language
>     appropriate resource [298]←
> 16:21:33 <azaroth> ... question may be to find a good composition engine
>   that takes into account the preferred places in the words
>
>      [297] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     ... question may be to find a good composition engine that
>     takes into account the preferred places in the words [299]←
> 16:21:54 <azaroth> ... as in EPUB with fixed content document, could be
> prepared in advance
>
>     ... as in EPUB with fixed content document, could be prepared
>     in advance [300]←
> 16:22:08 <azaroth> ... so not to rely on external dictionaries
>
>     ... so not to rely on external dictionaries [301]←
> 16:22:13 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
>
>     [302]Bill Kasdorf: q+ [303]←
> 16:22:20 <mgylling> ack Liam
>
>      [302] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [304]Markus Gylling: ack Liam [305]←
> 16:22:20 <Zakim> Liam, you wanted to note trend is away from inline reso
> urces and towards separate resources; also, browsers today *do* do hyphe
> nation, just don't support per-page or per-site
>
>      [304] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: Liam, you wanted to note trend is away from
>     inline resources and towards separate resources; also, browsers
>     today *do* do hyphenation, just don't support per-page or
>     per-site [306]←
> 16:22:23 <Zakim> ... dictionaries directly, and problem with search, goo
> gle, etc
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: ... dictionaries directly, and problem with
>     search, google, etc [307]←
> 16:22:33 <astearns> +1 to Liam's point
>
>     [308]Alan Stearns: +1 to Liam's point [309]←
> 16:22:46 <azaroth> Liam: Trend is away from inline and towards external,
>   like CSS and fonts
>
>      [308] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     [310]Liam Quin: Trend is away from inline and towards external,
>     like CSS and fonts [311]←
> 16:22:59 <azaroth> ... when people look at 2 or more pages, is better
>
>      [310] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liam_Quin
>
>     ... when people look at 2 or more pages, is better [312]←
> 16:23:20 <azaroth> ... but don't support hyphenation.  Search in page st
> ops working etc.
>
>     ... but don't support hyphenation. Search in page stops working
>     etc. [313]←
> 16:23:26 <azaroth> ... More that needs to be specified
>
>     ... More that needs to be specified [314]←
> 16:23:26 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [315]Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf [316]←
> 16:23:48 <azaroth> Bill: Almost always a dict is used in tandem with an
> algorithm as it doesn't provide all possible words
>
>      [315] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [317]Bill Kasdorf: Almost always a dict is used in tandem with
>     an algorithm as it doesn't provide all possible words [318]←
> 16:23:59 <azaroth> ... if present in dict it takes precedence
>
>      [317] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     ... if present in dict it takes precedence [319]←
> 16:24:06 <Luc> +1
>
>     [320]Luc Audrain: +1 [321]←
> 16:24:07 <azaroth> Dave: Using dict in a very broad sense
>
>      [320] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Luc_Audrain
>
>     [322]Dave Cramer: Using dict in a very broad sense [323]←
> 16:24:22 <astearns> dauwhe: you can encode prioritization in some system
> s (two dischys for a better break, for example)
>
>      [322] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [324]Dave Cramer: you can encode prioritization in some systems
>     (two dischys for a better break, for example) [ Scribe Assist
>     by [325]Alan Stearns ] [326]←
> 16:24:42 <azaroth> Bill: In all languages many examples of limitations w
> here you can't do it without context, eg pres/ent and pre/sent
>
>      [324] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>      [325] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     [327]Bill Kasdorf: In all languages many examples of
>     limitations where you can't do it without context, eg pres/ent
>     and pre/sent [328]←
> 16:24:48 <mgylling> q?
>
>      [327] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [329]Markus Gylling: q? [330]←
> 16:25:08 <azaroth> Dave: Situation out there in the wild is bad, we want
>   to improve it, but not going to get perfection
>
>      [329] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [331]Dave Cramer: Situation out there in the wild is bad, we
>     want to improve it, but not going to get perfection [332]←
> 16:25:14 <azaroth> Bill: Yes, not attainable
>
>      [331] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [333]Bill Kasdorf: Yes, not attainable [334]←
> 16:25:16 <Luc> q+
>
>      [333] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [335]Luc Audrain: q+ [336]←
> 16:25:25 <azaroth> Dave: There's a lot we can do in this area for requir
> ements
>
>      [335] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Luc_Audrain
>
>     [337]Dave Cramer: There's a lot we can do in this area for
>     requirements [338]←
> 16:25:30 <mgylling> ack Luc
>
>      [337] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [339]Markus Gylling: ack Luc [340]←
> 16:25:33 <azaroth> ... perhaps moving on to justification
>
>      [339] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     ... perhaps moving on to justification [341]←
> 16:26:09 <azaroth> Luc: Main question remains, if dictionaries used for
> exceptions, on algorithms used in OWP to calculate line length and break
> ing
>
>     [342]Luc Audrain: Main question remains, if dictionaries used
>     for exceptions, on algorithms used in OWP to calculate line
>     length and breaking [343]←
> 16:26:27 <azaroth> ... or declare them?
>
>      [342] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Luc_Audrain
>
>     ... or declare them? [344]←
> 16:26:47 <azaroth> Luc: Don't know which should be used but would like t
> o know which are available? Does each browser have their own?
>
>     [345]Luc Audrain: Don't know which should be used but would
>     like to know which are available? Does each browser have their
>     own? [346]←
> 16:26:59 <liam> [document providers will be able to say they prefer a pa
> rticular algorithm from a well-known list; I hope to see at least two su
> pported (first-fit as now, and n-line) ]
>
>      [345] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Luc_Audrain
>
>     [347]Liam Quin: [document providers will be able to say they
>     prefer a particular algorithm from a well-known list; I hope to
>     see at least two supported (first-fit as now, and n-line) ]
>     [348]←
> 16:27:16 <astearns> q+ to mention ladders
>
>      [347] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liam_Quin
>
>     [349]Alan Stearns: q+ to mention ladders [350]←
> 16:27:24 <azaroth> Dave: It becomes a bit intertwined with justification
>   at that point to decide
>
>      [349] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     [351]Dave Cramer: It becomes a bit intertwined with
>     justification at that point to decide [352]←
> 16:27:26 <mgylling> ack astearns
>
>      [351] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [353]Markus Gylling: ack astearns [354]←
> 16:27:26 <Zakim> astearns, you wanted to mention ladders
>
>      [353] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: astearns, you wanted to mention ladders [355]←
> 16:28:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
>
>     [356]Bill Kasdorf: q+ [357]←
> 16:28:33 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
>
>      [356] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [358]Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf [359]←
> 16:29:42 <azaroth_> Markus: Okay, moving on...
>
>      [358] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [360]Markus Gylling: Okay, moving on... [361]←
> 16:29:51 <azaroth_> Dave: Should we talk about tables a bit?
>
>      [360] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [362]Dave Cramer: Should we talk about tables a bit? [363]←
> 16:30:01 <azaroth_> ... I think this a good and interesting topic
>
>      [362] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... I think this a good and interesting topic [364]←
> 16:30:24 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/CA+EQKqi5UqFG_6X7hKnH0CxQBeWRno
> pzxg5THpXQYG_smX84JA@mail.gmail.com mail sent just now
>
>     [365]Ivan Herman: ->
>     [366]http://www.w3.org/mid/CA+EQKqi5UqFG_6X7hKnH0CxQBeWRnopzxg5
>     THpXQYG_smX84JA@mail.gmail.com mail sent just now [367]←
> 16:30:37 <azaroth_> ... Ben has done a tremendous amount of research int
> o automated rendering for HE texts
>
>      [365] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ivan_Herman
>      [366]
> http://www.w3.org/mid/CA+EQKqi5UqFG_6X7hKnH0CxQBeWRnopzxg5THpXQYG_smX84JA@mail.gmail.com
>
>
>     ... Ben has done a tremendous amount of research into automated
>     rendering for HE texts [368]←
> 16:31:02 <azaroth_> Ben: I sent a mail to the list.  Higher level -- lin
> e on character support, but can be on any character often decimals
>
>     [369]Ben Ko: I sent a mail to the list. Higher level -- line on
>     character support, but can be on any character often decimals
>     [370]←
> 16:31:15 <azaroth_> Second is support for flush left center. Not sure th
> ere's a standard term.
>
>      [369] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ben_Ko
>
>     Second is support for flush left center. Not sure there's a
>     standard term. [371]←
> 16:31:41 <azaroth_> ... FLC is a common variation on FL and FC, not supp
> orted in things even like InDesign
>
>     ... FLC is a common variation on FL and FC, not supported in
>     things even like InDesign [372]←
> 16:31:48 <azaroth_> Ivan: What does it do?
>
>     [373]Ivan Herman: What does it do? [374]←
> 16:32:26 <azaroth_> Ben: What's the difference? FLC says look at the col
> umn, find the longest line in the entries, center that line, and then ta
> ke all the other lines and flush left on that longest, centered line
>
>      [373] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ivan_Herman
>
>     [375]Ben Ko: What's the difference? FLC says look at the
>     column, find the longest line in the entries, center that line,
>     and then take all the other lines and flush left on that
>     longest, centered line [376]←
> 16:32:30 <Bill_Kasdorf> That is used in poetry as well as tables
>
>      [375] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ben_Ko
>
>     [377]Bill Kasdorf: That is used in poetry as well as tables
>     [378]←
> 16:32:42 <azaroth_> Markus: Flush meaning align the left most character
> with the base
>
>      [377] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [379]Markus Gylling: Flush meaning align the left most
>     character with the base [380]←
> 16:32:50 <azaroth_> Ben: Yup, align left
>
>      [379] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [381]Ben Ko: Yup, align left [382]←
> 16:32:56 <azaroth_> Bill: Also done in poetry
>
>      [381] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ben_Ko
>
>     [383]Bill Kasdorf: Also done in poetry [384]←
> 16:33:11 <azaroth_> Ben: Third is preventing line wrap if you have cells
>   aligning on a character or word
>
>      [383] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [385]Ben Ko: Third is preventing line wrap if you have cells
>     aligning on a character or word [386]←
> 16:33:27 <mgylling> important point re poetry, means this is not table-s
> pecific alignment behavior
>
>      [385] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ben_Ko
>
>     [387]Markus Gylling: important point re poetry, means this is
>     not table-specific alignment behavior [388]←
> 16:33:28 <azaroth_> ... Fourth, table widths.  Lots of notes about requi
> rements. Ask group if I should document?
>
>      [387] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     ... Fourth, table widths. Lots of notes about requirements. Ask
>     group if I should document? [389]←
> 16:33:30 <dauwhe> q+
>
>     [390]Dave Cramer: q+ [391]←
> 16:33:45 <azaroth_> ... idea is that tables don't size to some arbitrary
>   dimension, set by fixed width
>
>      [390] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... idea is that tables don't size to some arbitrary dimension,
>     set by fixed width [392]←
> 16:33:45 <tzviya> q+
>
>     [393]Tzviya Siegman: q+ [394]←
> 16:33:57 <azaroth_> ... idea partially aesthetics and relationships betw
> een tables
>
>      [393] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tzviya_Siegman
>
>     ... idea partially aesthetics and relationships between tables
>     [395]←
> 16:34:05 <dauwhe> q-
>
>     [396]Dave Cramer: q- [397]←
> 16:34:07 <azaroth_> ... 4 tables that showed similar data and should be
> considered together
>
>      [396] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... 4 tables that showed similar data and should be considered
>     together [398]←
> 16:34:18 <azaroth_> ... if rendered at diff sizes may be hard to see the
> y're related
>
>     ... if rendered at diff sizes may be hard to see they're
>     related [399]←
> 16:34:51 <azaroth> ... can't preset the width, so have to be able to set
>   table to some choice of width that is provided
>
>     ... can't preset the width, so have to be able to set table to
>     some choice of width that is provided [400]←
> 16:35:00 <azaroth> ... those are the high level points so far
>
>     ... those are the high level points so far [401]←
> 16:35:21 <azaroth> ... Alan? you replied on list, can you read it back t
> o discuss?
>
>     ... Alan? you replied on list, can you read it back to discuss?
>     [402]←
> 16:35:34 <azaroth> Alan: You had steps for aligning on a character eg de
> cimal. didn't seem right
>
>     [403]Alan Stearns : You had steps for aligning on a character
>     eg decimal. didn't seem right [404]←
> 16:35:46 <azaroth> ... centering portion can't be part of the algorithm
> sometimes
>
>      [403] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     ... centering portion can't be part of the algorithm sometimes
>     [405]←
> 16:35:53 <azaroth> Ben: Circumstance?
>
>     [406]Ben Ko: Circumstance? [407]←
> 16:36:06 <azaroth> Alan: Gave some sample data in reply.
> [408]
>
>      [406] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ben_Ko
>      [408] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     Alan Stearns : Gave some sample data in reply. [409]←
> 16:36:28 <azaroth> ... Can result in case where nothing is centred and t
> hat's appropriate
>
>     ... Can result in case where nothing is centred and that's
>     appropriate [410]←
> 16:36:52 <azaroth> Ben: Yes, true.
>
>     [411]Ben Ko: Yes, true. [412]←
> 16:36:55 <Liza> q+
>
>      [411] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ben_Ko
>
>     [413]Liza Daly: q+ [414]←
> 16:37:00 <azaroth> \me notes scribe isn't understanding discussion
>
>      [413] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     \me notes scribe isn't understanding discussion [415]←
> 16:37:30 <azaroth> Alan: Focus more on discussion and less on an algorit
> hm. Could be a faster algorithm.  Just talk about requirements not neces
> sarily steps
> [416]
>
>      [416] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     Alan Stearns : Focus more on discussion and less on an
>     algorithm. Could be a faster algorithm. Just talk about
>     requirements not necessarily steps [417]←
> 16:37:47 <azaroth> Ben: Fair enough. I think in this case I think we wan
> t to stay away from implementation details
>
>     [418]Ben Ko: Fair enough. I think in this case I think we want
>     to stay away from implementation details [419]←
> 16:38:00 <azaroth> ... trying to give examples that there's additional d
> etails to consider
>
>      [418] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ben_Ko
>
>     ... trying to give examples that there's additional details to
>     consider [420]←
> 16:38:32 <azaroth> ... agree that when more digits on one side in one ce
> ll, and more on the other side in another cell, but no individual cell w
> ould be centered
>
>     ... agree that when more digits on one side in one cell, and
>     more on the other side in another cell, but no individual cell
>     would be centered [421]←
> 16:38:40 <mgylling> ack tzviya
>
>     [422]Markus Gylling: ack tzviya [423]←
> 16:38:43 <azaroth> Markus: Shall we go through Q?
>
>      [422] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [424]Markus Gylling: Shall we go through Q? [425]←
> 16:39:07 <azaroth> Tzviya: Snapping to width is relevant, often related
> to trim size. Data relevant to a section needs to be presented in the sa
> me way.
>
>      [424] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [426]Tzviya Siegman: Snapping to width is relevant, often
>     related to trim size. Data relevant to a section needs to be
>     presented in the same way. [427]←
> 16:39:40 <azaroth> ... also spans and straddles -- can be difficult to a
> chive with CSS, esp with centre the content within a span. In HE content
>   often see vertical text, not sure if we want to mention in high level r
> eqs but will come up
>
>      [426] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tzviya_Siegman
>
>     ... also spans and straddles -- can be difficult to achive with
>     CSS, esp with centre the content within a span. In HE content
>     often see vertical text, not sure if we want to mention in high
>     level reqs but will come up [428]←
> 16:39:44 <azaroth> Ben: Agreed
>
>     [429]Ben Ko: Agreed [430]←
> 16:39:48 <mgylling> ack Liza
>
>      [429] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ben_Ko
>
>     [431]Markus Gylling: ack Liza [432]←
> 16:39:58 <Bill_Kasdorf> Do you mean vertical text or rotated text?
>
>      [431] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [433]Bill Kasdorf: Do you mean vertical text or rotated text?
>     [434]←
> 16:40:06 <astearns> I think we should definitely mention Latin vertical
> text requirements
>
>      [433] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [435]Alan Stearns: I think we should definitely mention Latin
>     vertical text requirements [436]←
> 16:40:06 <azaroth> Liza: To what extent do we want to consider tables in
>   mobile devices where there's no room
>
>      [435] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     [437]Liza Daly: To what extent do we want to consider tables in
>     mobile devices where there's no room [438]←
> 16:40:11 <tzviya> +100
>
>      [437] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     [439]Tzviya Siegman: +100 [440]←
> 16:40:16 <azaroth> ... problem with basic html in reading systems
>
>      [439] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tzviya_Siegman
>
>     ... problem with basic html in reading systems [441]←
> 16:40:20 <azaroth> +100 from me too
>
>     +100 from me too [442]←
> 16:40:37 <azaroth> ... Do we want to dictate what the behaviour should b
> e when the reading system can't fill the space
>
>     ... Do we want to dictate what the behaviour should be when the
>     reading system can't fill the space [443]←
> 16:40:58 <azaroth> Markus: Something that Tzviya has talked about as wel
> l. The most basic things not working.  A separate cluster of requirement
> s?
>
>     [444]Markus Gylling: Something that Tzviya has talked about as
>     well. The most basic things not working. A separate cluster of
>     requirements? [445]←
> 16:41:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
>
>      [444] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [446]Bill Kasdorf: q+ [447]←
> 16:41:31 <azaroth> Dave: First thought is it sounds like a separate clus
> ter of fallbacks for tables in limited screen real estate, how tables sh
> ould degrade. Haven;t thought about it a lot
>
>      [446] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [448]Dave Cramer: First thought is it sounds like a separate
>     cluster of fallbacks for tables in limited screen real estate,
>     how tables should degrade. Haven;t thought about it a lot
>     [449]←
> 16:41:39 <azaroth> ... expect other people have spent more time
>
>      [448] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... expect other people have spent more time [450]←
> 16:41:50 <azaroth> Markus:  What task force? Tzviya, under adaptive?
>
>     [451]Markus Gylling: What task force? Tzviya, under adaptive?
>     [452]←
> 16:42:22 <azaroth> Tzviya: I mentioned it. If we talk about tables in th
> is document, we should mention it. That it won't render everywhere. Also
>   Bill was considering -- not everything can function as a table in mobil
> e
>
>      [451] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [453]Tzviya Siegman: I mentioned it. If we talk about tables in
>     this document, we should mention it. That it won't render
>     everywhere. Also Bill was considering -- not everything can
>     function as a table in mobile [454]←
> 16:42:31 <azaroth> ... not sure a fallback would be the way we define it
>
>      [453] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tzviya_Siegman
>
>     ... not sure a fallback would be the way we define it [455]←
> 16:42:42 <azaroth> Dave: Just using to mean some simplified arrangement
>
>     [456]Dave Cramer: Just using to mean some simplified
>     arrangement [457]←
> 16:42:55 <azaroth> Liza: Not to increase the scope, but need a position
> on it as a real issue
>
>      [456] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [458]Liza Daly: Not to increase the scope, but need a position
>     on it as a real issue [459]←
> 16:43:02 <azaroth> Markus: Agreed, been up before and we need to cover i
> t
>
>      [458] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liza_Daly
>
>     [460]Markus Gylling: Agreed, been up before and we need to
>     cover it [461]←
> 16:43:32 <azaroth> Dave: latinreq might be the place to describe the hig
> h end use case, what we want to do with tables, but not the place to wor
> k on more restrictive circumstances
>
>      [460] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [462]Dave Cramer: latinreq might be the place to describe the
>     high end use case, what we want to do with tables, but not the
>     place to work on more restrictive circumstances [463]←
> 16:43:40 <azaroth> Markus: Natural home? Tzviya?
>
>      [462] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [464]Markus Gylling: Natural home? Tzviya? [465]←
> 16:43:50 <azaroth> Tzviya: Still trying to figure out what my area is :)
>
>      [464] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [466]Tzviya Siegman: Still trying to figure out what my area is
>     :) [467]←
> 16:43:59 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
>
>      [466] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tzviya_Siegman
>
>     [468]Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf [469]←
> 16:43:59 <azaroth> ... do have a use case, so can bring it up.  Sure.
>
>      [468] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     ... do have a use case, so can bring it up. Sure. [470]←
> 16:44:34 <azaroth> Bill:  Just to point out that there's an obvious beha
> viour that compensates -- the ability to hide rows or columns.  Typicall
> y not reading everything, just looking something up
>
>     [471]Bill Kasdorf: Just to point out that there's an obvious
>     behaviour that compensates -- the ability to hide rows or
>     columns. Typically not reading everything, just looking
>     something up [472]←
> 16:44:45 <azaroth> ... don't care about columns 2-4 to look up something
>   in column 5
>
>      [471] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     ... don't care about columns 2-4 to look up something in column
>     5 [473]←
> 16:45:00 <azaroth> ... so if you can hide them, you can see it on your p
> hone
>
>     ... so if you can hide them, you can see it on your phone
>     [474]←
> 16:45:21 <Zakim> -Sharad_Garg
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -Sharad_Garg [475]←
> 16:45:21 <azaroth> Tzviya: Don't necessarily agree. Sometimes need every
> thing to do a comparison.
>
>     [476]Tzviya Siegman: Don't necessarily agree. Sometimes need
>     everything to do a comparison. [477]←
> 16:45:41 <azaroth> Bill: If it's a table, then given the ability to look
>   at portions is useful. Not a complete solution
>
>      [476] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tzviya_Siegman
>
>     [478]Bill Kasdorf: If it's a table, then given the ability to
>     look at portions is useful. Not a complete solution [479]←
> 16:45:48 <azaroth> Markus: Where were we with alignment in columns
>
>      [478] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [480]Markus Gylling: Where were we with alignment in columns
>     [481]←
> 16:46:17 <azaroth> Ben: I'll clean up the language to correct hte langua
> ge. Screenshots ... how to provide?
>
>      [480] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [482]Ben Ko: I'll clean up the language to correct hte
>     language. Screenshots ... how to provide? [483]←
> 16:46:26 <azaroth> Dave: I can put them in the doc if you email them to
> me
>
>      [482] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Ben_Ko
>
>     [484]Dave Cramer: I can put them in the doc if you email them
>     to me [485]←
> 16:46:34 <azaroth> ... next comment was can we have some illustrations
>
>      [484] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... next comment was can we have some illustrations [486]←
> 16:46:50 <azaroth> Markus: Sounds like we had unanimous agreement was re
> quirements, not to mandate algorithms
>
>     [487]Markus Gylling: Sounds like we had unanimous agreement was
>     requirements, not to mandate algorithms [488]←
> 16:47:08 <astearns> q+ on algorithms
>
>      [487] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [489]Alan Stearns: q+ on algorithms [490]←
> 16:47:13 <azaroth> Dave: Some sort of tricky example to align on charact
> er, describing these kind of arrangements
>
>      [489] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     [491]Dave Cramer: Some sort of tricky example to align on
>     character, describing these kind of arrangements [492]←
> 16:47:16 <mgylling> ack astearns
>
>      [491] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [493]Markus Gylling: ack astearns [494]←
> 16:47:16 <Zakim> astearns, you wanted to comment on algorithms
>
>      [493] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: astearns, you wanted to comment on algorithms
>     [495]←
> 16:47:18 <azaroth> ... in scope for this doc
>
>     ... in scope for this doc [496]←
> 16:47:47 <azaroth> Alan: Algorithm the computer has to go through seems
> out of scope. Manual algorithm for print production, those steps are ver
> y useful to describe
>
>     [497]Alan Stearns : Algorithm the computer has to go through
>     seems out of scope. Manual algorithm for print production,
>     those steps are very useful to describe [498]←
> 16:48:04 <azaroth> Dave: Yes, this is how we think about it, the concept
> s we apply to get the desired end result. Agree those are good
>
>      [497] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     [499]Dave Cramer: Yes, this is how we think about it, the
>     concepts we apply to get the desired end result. Agree those
>     are good [500]←
> 16:48:17 <azaroth> Markus: Dave, you also mentioned grids as a topic
>
>      [499] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [501]Markus Gylling: Dave, you also mentioned grids as a topic
>     [502]←
> 16:48:33 <dauwhe> http://alistapart.com
>
>      [501] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [503]Dave Cramer: [504]http://alistapart.com [505]←
> 16:48:34 <azaroth> Dave: Thanks to Alan for the text. Provided a lovely
> example of the problem
>
>      [503] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>      [504] http://alistapart.com/
>
>     [506]Dave Cramer: Thanks to Alan for the text. Provided a
>     lovely example of the problem [507]←
> 16:49:11 <azaroth> ... Something I mentioned last week, the idea of the
> grid seems important, also trying to get at the underlying principles. A
> lignment goals that grids implement
>
>      [506] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... Something I mentioned last week, the idea of the grid seems
>     important, also trying to get at the underlying principles.
>     Alignment goals that grids implement [508]←
> 16:49:38 <azaroth> ... trying to get to a more fundamental aspect of the
>   problem.  Looking at the example there, what is supposed to align with
> what, that would make it look less horrible
>
>     ... trying to get to a more fundamental aspect of the problem.
>     Looking at the example there, what is supposed to align with
>     what, that would make it look less horrible [509]←
> 16:50:09 <azaroth> ... at bottom, there's a section more from alistapart
> , 3 articles with varying structures so nothing aligns
>
>     ... at bottom, there's a section more from alistapart, 3
>     articles with varying structures so nothing aligns [510]←
> 16:50:21 <azaroth> ... main text isn't on the same grid, varying numbers
>   of lines. all over the place
>
>     ... main text isn't on the same grid, varying numbers of lines.
>     all over the place [511]←
> 16:50:45 <azaroth> Alan: One of the things I'm planning to do is put som
> e screenshots together to show before and after, what controls you'd nee
> d to achieve the after effect
>
>     [512]Alan Stearns : One of the things I'm planning to do is put
>     some screenshots together to show before and after, what
>     controls you'd need to achieve the after effect [513]←
> 16:51:12 <azaroth> ... been considering for grids are theoretical, don't
>   work on the tools. for ppl using baseline grids, they have some manual
> steps, would be good to get feedback for requirements
>
>      [512] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     ... been considering for grids are theoretical, only work on
>     the tools. for ppl using baseline grids, they have some manual
>     steps, would be good to get feedback for requirements [514]←
> 16:51:24 <astearns> s/don't work/only work/
> 16:51:42 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
>
>     [515]Bill Kasdorf: q+ [516]←
> 16:51:43 <azaroth> Dave: Love to see some examples of grids in use. Can
> point out that grid enables this to work. Underlying design principles t
> o codify
>
>      [515] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [517]Dave Cramer: Love to see some examples of grids in use.
>     Can point out that grid enables this to work. Underlying design
>     principles to codify [518]←
> 16:51:55 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
>
>      [517] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [519]Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf [520]←
> 16:51:59 <azaroth> ... what grids need to achieve
>
>      [519] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     ... what grids need to achieve [521]←
> 16:52:09 <Zakim> -fjh
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -fjh [522]←
> 16:52:17 <azaroth> Bill: Makes me think of related use case- ability to
> set a vertical marker that other things are aligned with
>
>     [523]Bill Kasdorf: Makes me think of related use case- ability
>     to set a vertical marker that other things are aligned with
>     [524]←
> 16:52:28 <azaroth> ... not a pre existing grid, just an alignment point.
>   On the list?
>
>      [523] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     ... not a pre existing grid, just an alignment point. On the
>     list? [525]←
> 16:52:42 <azaroth> Dave: Applies to lots of things. Side by side text, s
> ide note.
>
>     [526]Dave Cramer: Applies to lots of things. Side by side text,
>     side note. [527]←
> 16:52:47 <azaroth> Bill: translations for example
>
>      [526] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [528]Bill Kasdorf: translations for example [529]←
> 16:52:49 <azaroth> Dave: Yeah
>
>      [528] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [530]Dave Cramer: Yeah [531]←
> 16:52:58 <azaroth> ... way to go is if you have examples, then send them
>   along
>
>      [530] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... way to go is if you have examples, then send them along
>     [532]←
> 16:53:07 <azaroth> Bill: Yes not a grid, just made me think of it
>
>     [533]Bill Kasdorf: Yes not a grid, just made me think of it
>     [534]←
> 16:53:17 <azaroth> Dave: Larger issue of alignment. How does this object
>   relate to that object
>
>      [533] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     [535]Dave Cramer: Larger issue of alignment. How does this
>     object relate to that object [536]←
> 16:53:39 <azaroth> ... whole subject has lots of diff manifestations. As
>   many examples as possible to let us come up with what we need to do
>
>      [535] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... whole subject has lots of diff manifestations. As many
>     examples as possible to let us come up with what we need to do
>     [537]←
> 16:54:00 <azaroth> Markus: Bill, I thought you were going to talk about
> alignment in 2 page spread. points sometimes cross page boundaries.
>
>     [538]Markus Gylling: Bill, I thought you were going to talk
>     about alignment in 2 page spread. points sometimes cross page
>     boundaries. [539]←
> 16:54:20 <azaroth> Bill: That's true. More universal than that. DOn't wa
> nt people to focus on page based rendering, relevant in reflowable
>
>      [538] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [540]Bill Kasdorf: That's true. More universal than that. DOn't
>     want people to focus on page based rendering, relevant in
>     reflowable [541]←
> 16:54:29 <azaroth> ... good question though, would the same mechanism wo
> rk for both use cases
>
>      [540] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     ... good question though, would the same mechanism work for
>     both use cases [542]←
> 16:54:40 <Luc> +1
>
>     [543]Luc Audrain: +1 [544]←
> 16:54:48 <azaroth> Dave: Sent the list another big question on equation
> alignment on = signs
>
>      [543] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Luc_Audrain
>
>     [545]Dave Cramer: Sent the list another big question on
>     equation alignment on = signs [546]←
> 16:54:53 <azaroth> ... even though unrelated html structure
>
>      [545] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... even though unrelated html structure [547]←
> 16:55:03 <liam> +1 alignment
>
>     [548]Liam Quin: +1 alignment [549]←
> 16:55:05 <azaroth> ... one of the big, fundamental issues when laying ou
> t pages
>
>      [548] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Liam_Quin
>
>     ... one of the big, fundamental issues when laying out pages
>     [550]←
> 16:55:21 <azaroth> Markus: Need to decide what to do next week
>
>     [551]Markus Gylling: Need to decide what to do next week [552]←
> 16:55:30 <azaroth> ... where do you see yourself going in terms of grids
> ?
>
>      [551] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     ... where do you see yourself going in terms of grids? [553]←
> 16:55:46 <azaroth> Dave: Would like to get illustrations, examples in he
> re. See where they go.
>
>     [554]Dave Cramer: Would like to get illustrations, examples in
>     here. See where they go. [555]←
> 16:56:04 <azaroth> ... can start writing up more on hyphenation. WOuld l
> ike to start collecting egs and screenshots
>
>      [554] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     ... can start writing up more on hyphenation. WOuld like to
>     start collecting egs and screenshots [556]←
> 16:56:31 <azaroth> ... maybe go into a phase where actively working on a
>   few parts with lots of input from people with what trying to achieve
>
>     ... maybe go into a phase where actively working on a few parts
>     with lots of input from people with what trying to achieve
>     [557]←
> 16:56:38 <azaroth> Markus: Alan, does that work for you?
>
>     [558]Markus Gylling: Alan, does that work for you? [559]←
> 16:56:43 <azaroth> Alan: Certainly
> [560]
>
>      [558] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>      [560] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Alan_Stearns
>
>     Alan Stearns : Certainly [561]←
> 16:56:55 <mgylling> ack Luc
>
>     [562]Markus Gylling: ack Luc [563]←
> 16:57:36 <azaroth> Markus: Great. For next week, we need another task fo
> rce, unless you disagree Dave?
>
>      [562] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [564]Markus Gylling: Great. For next week, we need another task
>     force, unless you disagree Dave? [565]←
> 16:57:42 <azaroth> Dave: I need a break :)
>
>      [564] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [566]Dave Cramer: I need a break :) [567]←
> 16:57:52 <azaroth> Markus: Tzviya, shall we move to your group?
>
>      [566] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     [568]Markus Gylling: Tzviya, shall we move to your group?
>     [569]←
> 16:58:09 <azaroth> Tzviya: Don't have a lot pulled together, but could r
> eview what we have now
>
>      [568] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     [570]Tzviya Siegman: Don't have a lot pulled together, but
>     could review what we have now [571]←
> 16:58:24 <azaroth> Markus: Still a bit fuzzy where the edges are, need t
> o clarify where to go.
>
>      [570] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tzviya_Siegman
>
>     [572]Markus Gylling: Still a bit fuzzy where the edges are,
>     need to clarify where to go. [573]←
> 16:58:39 <azaroth> ... AOB?
>
>      [572] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Markus_Gylling
>
>     ... AOB? [574]←
> 16:58:53 <azaroth> Dave: Several of us will be at digital book world thi
> s week
>
>     [575]Dave Cramer: Several of us will be at digital book world
>     this week [576]←
> 16:59:13 <Zakim> -madi
>
>      [575] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dave_Cramer
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -madi [577]←
> 16:59:14 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -Bill_Kasdorf [578]←
> 16:59:14 <Zakim> -Liza
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -Liza [579]←
> 16:59:14 <TomDN> zakim, unmute me
>
>     [580]Tom De Nies: zakim, unmute me [581]←
> 16:59:15 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
>
>      [580] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Tom_De_Nies
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should no longer be muted [582]←
> 16:59:16 <Zakim> -Tzviya
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -Tzviya [583]←
> 16:59:16 <Zakim> -dauwhe
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -dauwhe [584]←
> 16:59:17 <Zakim> -Ivan
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan [585]←
> 16:59:18 <Zakim> -azaroth
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -azaroth [586]←
> 16:59:18 <Zakim> -Stearns
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -Stearns [587]←
> 16:59:19 <Zakim> -benjaminsko
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -benjaminsko [588]←
> 16:59:19 <Zakim> -Liam
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -Liam [589]←
> 16:59:21 <Zakim> -TomDN
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -TomDN [590]←
> 16:59:22 <Zakim> -Bert
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -Bert [591]←
> 16:59:23 <mgylling> regrets: Brady Duga, Vladimir Levantovsky, Laura Fow
> ler, Jean Kaplansky
> 16:59:25 <Zakim> -laudrain
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: -laudrain [592]←
> 16:59:26 <Zakim> -AWK
>
>     (No events recorded for 5 minutes)
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, mgylling, in
>     DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM [593]←
> 17:05:02 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended [594]←
> 17:05:02 <Zakim> Attendees were Liza, dauwhe, azaroth, Tzviya, Ivan, Ste
> arns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf, Bert, laudrain, benjaminsko, AWK, gcapiel,
>   Sharad_Garg, TomDN, tmichel, fjh, Liam, madi
>
>     Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Liza, dauwhe, azaroth, Tzviya,
>     Ivan, Stearns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf, Bert, laudrain,
>     benjaminsko, AWK, gcapiel, Sharad_Garg, TomDN, tmichel, fjh,
>     Liam, madi [595]←
>
>     Formatted by [596]CommonScribe (Submit) Show Interleaved IRC
>     Text
>       __________________________________________________________
>
>      [596] http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 14 January 2014 08:12:25 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 16:24:54 UTC