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Re: Glossary updates

From: Gaelle Calvary <Gaelle.Calvary@imag.fr>
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 08:14:14 +0200
Cc: public-mbui@w3.org
Message-Id: <3D5EDCBE-8826-480A-B1B1-387B30B955F0@imag.fr>
To: Paolo Bottoni <bottoni@di.uniroma1.it>
Dear Paolo,
The question is: can a AUI play different roles?
To me, the answer is yes.
It can (at least) play the roles of:
- a AUI model for a given UI
- a pattern.
Thus the megamodel works well.
Interesting discussion: yes :-) and again I am open so no problem to  
make it more simple (as a result probably more limited) by merging AUI  
and AUI model.
Cheers
Gaelle


Le 5 avr. 13 à 03:41, Paolo Bottoni a écrit :

> Thanks, Gaelle,
>
> I know some of Jean-Marie's work and I appreciate it. Of course, I  
> have a bias towards the MDA's perspective, but I agree that it is  
> only an incarnation of the general notion of MDE. However, I think  
> that, independently of the value of the megamodel in [1], there  
> might be some problems, in the current situation to follow that  
> approach.
>
> 1. So far, and especially in the AUI document, we have not taken the  
> point of view that a model is a relation between systems, but that  
> systems and models are different types of artefacts. Also the  
> current glossary term for model, in both its alternative versions,  
> follows this view
>
> 2. Even if we accept that models are relations between systems, then  
> it would not make sense to characterise the AUI Model as a model per  
> se, but it would be some sort of system, that can be used as a model  
> for the AUI system.
>
> 3. We should then state what kinds of system the AUI and the  
> AUIModel are and characterise them as Digital, Physical, or  
> Abstract. From the current version of the glossary item for AUI, it  
> would appear as an abstract system (according to Favre, "Abstract  
> systems are those processed by human minds" and mathematical  
> entitities are "special cases of Abstract Systems"), then I would  
> wonder why we need to establish a relation between these two types  
> of abstract systems, and which would be the transformations or other  
> types of relations between the two, whereas the relations between  
> AUI Model, CUI Model and Physical Interface are quite clear, the  
> first two being abstract systems and the last one a digital system.
>
> So, even considering the megamodel perspective, I do not see a  
> reason for having "AUI" side to side with "AUI model".
>
> In any case, I am not an expert of megamodels, so I might have  
> misinterpreted this.
>
> Interesting discussion, though,
>
> best
> paolo
>
>
> 2013/4/5 Gaelle Calvary <Gaelle.Calvary@imag.fr>
> Dear Paolo,
> May I recommend you this paper [1] (in attachment)? The first  
> sentence is "MDE is not MDA" :-)
> Anyway, I am also open :-)
> Cheers
> Gaelle
>
> [1]  J.M. Favre, Towards a Basic Theory to Model Model Driven  
> Engineering, Workshop on Software Model Engineering, WISME @  
> UML2004, Lisboa, Portugal, October 11, 2004, http://www-adele.imag.fr/~jmfavre
>
>
>
>
> Concerning the issue raised by Gaelle, I think we differ on this  
> subject.
>
> To me the only system that is there is the actually deployed and  
> running interactive system, all other artifacts being models of  
> (parts of) this system.
>
> If I look at the (admittedly old) draft on the MDA, I read in the  
> glossary:
>
> Model: A model is a representation of part of the function,  
> structure and/or behavior of
> a system.
>
> The glossary does not contain an item for System, but elsewhere in  
> the document it is said
>
> "We use system here in the system-theoretic sense to include not  
> only software."
>
> So models are models of systems, and systems are something with  
> "function, structure and behavior", with models possibly referring  
> to any of these aspects. Also, it is said "Note that under this  
> definition, source code is a model that has the salient  
> characteristic that it can be executed by a machine.", which makes  
> me think that only the execution of the code provides the system  
> under study.
>
> So, I'll stand by my view, but of course the group can choose either  
> way. The important thing is that all the related choices are made in  
> a consistent way.
>
> best
> paolo
>
>
>
> 2013/4/4 Gaelle Calvary <Gaelle.Calvary@imag.fr>
> Dear Colleagues,
> I have also edited the document (in pink).
> Three comments:
> 1- I would prefer to define AUI and CUI as SYSTEMS (i.e. things)  
> that can be modeled in different ways depending on the modeling  
> purpose. Thus a AUI (resp CUI) can PLAY THE ROLE
> - of a pattern
> or
> - of a AUI model for the UI under study
> or
> - of .... possibly other roles not identified so far.
> To the best of my knowledge, this is well aligned with "pure" MDE  
> where
> - every thing is a SYSTEM
> - nothing is a model per se
> - but every system can play the role of a model for another system.
> Thus I prefer to have two entries in the glossary:
> - the concept of AUI (grouping ...)
> - the concept of model.
>
> 2- to keep the glossary as DRY (Do not Repeat Yourself) as possible,  
> I would be in favor of removing several entries (see my comments in  
> the document)
>
> 3- the glossary contains several (interesting) concepts, but that  
> are not mentionned in the introduction. I believed the glossary had  
> to be limited to the useful terms for reading the MBUI documents. In  
> this case there are several terms to be removed.
>
> Unfortunately, I have one full day project meeting today that makes  
> me impossible to join the conference call.
> If you agree with my comments, I would be happy to "clean" the  
> document once this is agreed on. Of course, no problem if you  
> disagree :-)
> Kind regards
> Gaelle
>
>
>
> Le 3 avr. 13 à 08:54, Paolo Bottoni a écrit :
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> I have gone through a revision of all the items with NOTE or X. I  
> have made some local corrections, or proposed alternative  
> definitions (sorry about that) and also proposed a new item:  
> Interaction !!. All of these are written in green. Plus, I have made  
> some comments.
>
> The most notable thing is that I have tried to provide a revision of  
> the definitions of AUI, CUI, Physical UI, which should make the  
> three levels more consistent. In this respect, as I said over the  
> last telcon, I do not think there is such a thing as an AUI, but AUI  
> and CUI are only modeling artefact. Also, I have tried to revise  
> uses of the term model so as to make them consistent. I hope I  
> succeeded in this.
>
> As I am on a 7-hour time difference, the next telcons will occur  
> when it 20.00 in Japan, making it difficult for me to join. Almost  
> certainly, it will not be possible for me to do it tomorrow
>
> best
>
> paolo
>
> 2013/3/30 Jaroslav Pullmann <jaroslav.pullmann@fit.fraunhofer.de>
>
>  Hello Joëlle,
>
>  yes, this marking is intended to distinguish the definition row  
> (out of possibly many associated
>  to a single term), which is going to be published.  The inclusion  
> of terms themselves is marked
>  on the left ("X") of the term.
>
>  Best regards
>   Jaroslav
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, March 30, 2013 10:14 CET, Joëlle Coutaz <joelle.coutaz@imag.f 
> r> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jaroslav.
> > If I understand you correctly, you have inserted the flag "NOTE"  
> to help the group to focus on the entries for which  a final  
> decision has to be made. "NOTE" is attached to other entries than  
> the ones you have listed below as NOTE is attached to almost all the  
> entries I have modified.
> >
> > I let the group make the final decision.
> > Happy Easter,
> > --joelle
> >
> > On 30 Mar 2013, at 9:43, Jaroslav Pullmann wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Dear Joëlle, dear all,
> > >
> > > thank you for a thorough review and complement of the glossary!
> > > There are definitions where a final selection out of alternative
> > > wordings should be verified/decided by placing a marking ("NOTE"):
> > >
> > >  Adaptability
> > >  Adaptivity
> > >  Distribution
> > >  Distributed User Interface
> > >  Elasticity
> > >  Interactor
> > >  Mono-target UI (bullet list only)
> > >  Presentation Unit (pending, obsolate)
> > >  Reification
> > >
> > > Because of Easter holidays I will not be available for the  
> telcon on April,
> > > 4th. In case you agree on finalizing and publishing the glossary  
> I will take
> > > care of the formatting.
> > >
> > >  Best regards
> > >   Jaroslav
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thursday, March 28, 2013 11:49 CET, Joëlle Coutaz <joelle.coutaz@imag.f 
> r> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi all,
> > >> As promised, I have edited the glossary to the best of my  
> knowledge.
> > >>
> > >> First, I have focussed on the terms used in the introduction +  
> the foundational terms used in the Task and AUI documents.
> > >> Then, I have browsed the glossary and updated a number of  
> entries + answered to most comments + added a couple of new comments.
> > >> I hope we have made some progress towards convergence.
> > >> My inputs are in red.
> > >>
> > >> Now, you own the thing!
> > >> Best,
> > >> --joelle
> > >>
> > >>  
> *************************************************************************
> > >> Joelle COUTAZ, Professeur émérite
> > >> Lab. LIG (laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble)
> > >> 41 rue des Mathématiques, 38400 St-Martin d'Hères, France, http://iihm.imag.fr/cout 
> az, tel. 33 4 76 51 48 54
> > >>  
> *************************************************************************
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > --
> > > Jaroslav Pullmann
> > > Fraunhofer Institute for Applied Information Technology FIT
> > > Web Compliance Center: http://imergo.com/ · http://imergo.de/
> > > Schloss Birlinghoven, D-53757 Sankt Augustin, Germany
> > > Phone: +49-2241-142623 · Fax: +49-2241-142065
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >  
> *************************************************************************
> > Joelle COUTAZ, Professeur émérite
> > Lab. LIG (laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble)
> > 41 rue des Mathématiques, 38400 St-Martin d'Hères, France, http://iihm.imag.fr/cout 
> az, tel. 33 4 76 51 48 54
> >  
> *************************************************************************
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Jaroslav Pullmann
> Fraunhofer Institute for Applied Information Technology FIT
> Web Compliance Center: http://imergo.com/ · http://imergo.de/
> Schloss Birlinghoven, D-53757 Sankt Augustin, Germany
> Phone: +49-2241-142623 · Fax: +49-2241-142065
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Paolo Bottoni
>
> Associate Professor of Computer Science
>
> Email: bottoni@di.uniroma1.it
>
> Website: http://w3.uniroma1.it/dipinfo/scheda_docente.asp?cognome=Bottoni&nome=Paolo
>
> Phone: +39 06 4925 5166
>
> Fax: + 39 06 8541842
>
> Important conferences:
>
> http://www.etaps.org/
> http://www.dsmforum.org/events/GMLD13
> https://sites.google.com/site/vlhcc2013/home
> http://www.ksi.edu/seke/vlc13cfp.html
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gaelle Calvary, Professeur en Informatique
> Chargée de mission "Société du numérique" à l'Institut  
> polytechnique de Grenoble
> Directeur adjoint du Laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble
> 41, rue des mathématiques - BP 53 - 38041 Grenoble Cedex 9 - France
> TeŽl : (+33) (0)4 76 51 48 54 - http://iihm.imag.fr/calvary
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Paolo Bottoni
>
> Associate Professor of Computer Science
>
> Email: bottoni@di.uniroma1.it
>
> Website: http://w3.uniroma1.it/dipinfo/scheda_docente.asp?cognome=Bottoni&nome=Paolo
>
> Phone: +39 06 4925 5166
>
> Fax: + 39 06 8541842
>
> Important conferences:
>
> http://www.etaps.org/
> http://www.dsmforum.org/events/GMLD13
> https://sites.google.com/site/vlhcc2013/home
> http://www.ksi.edu/seke/vlc13cfp.html
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gaelle Calvary, Professeur en Informatique
> Chargée de mission "Société du numérique" à l'Institut  
> polytechnique de Grenoble
> Directeur adjoint du Laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble
> 41, rue des mathématiques - BP 53 - 38041 Grenoble Cedex 9 - France
> TeŽl : (+33) (0)4 76 51 48 54 - http://iihm.imag.fr/calvary
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Paolo Bottoni
>
> Associate Professor of Computer Science
>
> Email: bottoni@di.uniroma1.it
>
> Website: http://w3.uniroma1.it/dipinfo/scheda_docente.asp?cognome=Bottoni&nome=Paolo
>
> Phone: +39 06 4925 5166
>
> Fax: + 39 06 8541842
>
> Important conferences:
>
> http://www.etaps.org/
> http://www.dsmforum.org/events/GMLD13
> https://sites.google.com/site/vlhcc2013/home
> http://www.ksi.edu/seke/vlc13cfp.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gaelle Calvary, Professeur en Informatique
Chargée de mission "Société du numérique" à l'Institut  
polytechnique de Grenoble
Directeur adjoint du Laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble
41, rue des mathématiques - BP 53 - 38041 Grenoble Cedex 9 - France
TeŽl : (+33) (0)4 76 51 48 54 - http://iihm.imag.fr/calvary
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Received on Friday, 5 April 2013 06:14:43 UTC

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