W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-mbui@w3.org > April 2013

Re: Glossary updates

From: Paolo Bottoni <bottoni@di.uniroma1.it>
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 15:38:49 +0900
Message-ID: <CAAhAGAb8v07hp2xYgRW1B2qu33iCBpzEQgqLLDXAtnqwAzo-_Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-mbui@w3.org
Hi Gaelle,

yes sure: an AUI (model) can play different roles. As a model, it is
actually a specification of a family of possible realisations. The very
fact that it can be reified into different CUI (models) is witness to that.

And it can well be a pattern against which to match existing interfaces or
models of it to see if they conform to the pattern, or could be a fragment
used in the construction of more complex AUI models.
>From my point of view, to play the role of a pattern, we should add roles
to the different components, and check if the relations between elements
playing the role conform to the corresponding relations between the roles,
but this should come with the notion of conformance.

best
paolo

2013/4/5 Gaelle Calvary <Gaelle.Calvary@imag.fr>

> Dear Paolo,
> The question is: can a AUI play different roles?
> To me, the answer is yes.
> It can (at least) play the roles of:
> - a AUI model for a given UI
> - a pattern.
> Thus the megamodel works well.
> Interesting discussion: yes :-) and again I am open so no problem to make
> it more simple (as a result probably more limited) by merging AUI and AUI
> model.
> Cheers
> Gaelle
>
>
> Le 5 avr. 13 à 03:41, Paolo Bottoni a écrit :
>
>
>  Thanks, Gaelle,
>>
>> I know some of Jean-Marie's work and I appreciate it. Of course, I have a
>> bias towards the MDA's perspective, but I agree that it is only an
>> incarnation of the general notion of MDE. However, I think that,
>> independently of the value of the megamodel in [1], there might be some
>> problems, in the current situation to follow that approach.
>>
>> 1. So far, and especially in the AUI document, we have not taken the
>> point of view that a model is a relation between systems, but that systems
>> and models are different types of artefacts. Also the current glossary term
>> for model, in both its alternative versions, follows this view
>>
>> 2. Even if we accept that models are relations between systems, then it
>> would not make sense to characterise the AUI Model as a model per se, but
>> it would be some sort of system, that can be used as a model for the AUI
>> system.
>>
>> 3. We should then state what kinds of system the AUI and the AUIModel are
>> and characterise them as Digital, Physical, or Abstract. From the current
>> version of the glossary item for AUI, it would appear as an abstract system
>> (according to Favre, "Abstract systems are those processed by human minds"
>> and mathematical entitities are "special cases of Abstract Systems"), then
>> I would wonder why we need to establish a relation between these two types
>> of abstract systems, and which would be the transformations or other types
>> of relations between the two, whereas the relations between AUI Model, CUI
>> Model and Physical Interface are quite clear, the first two being abstract
>> systems and the last one a digital system.
>>
>> So, even considering the megamodel perspective, I do not see a reason for
>> having "AUI" side to side with "AUI model".
>>
>> In any case, I am not an expert of megamodels, so I might have
>> misinterpreted this.
>>
>> Interesting discussion, though,
>>
>> best
>> paolo
>>
>>
>> 2013/4/5 Gaelle Calvary <Gaelle.Calvary@imag.fr>
>> Dear Paolo,
>> May I recommend you this paper [1] (in attachment)? The first sentence is
>> "MDE is not MDA" :-)
>> Anyway, I am also open :-)
>> Cheers
>> Gaelle
>>
>> [1]  J.M. Favre, Towards a Basic Theory to Model Model Driven
>> Engineering, Workshop on Software Model Engineering, WISME @ UML2004,
>> Lisboa, Portugal, October 11, 2004, http://www-adele.imag.fr/~**jmfavre<http://www-adele.imag.fr/~jmfavre>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Concerning the issue raised by Gaelle, I think we differ on this subject.
>>
>> To me the only system that is there is the actually deployed and running
>> interactive system, all other artifacts being models of (parts of) this
>> system.
>>
>> If I look at the (admittedly old) draft on the MDA, I read in the
>> glossary:
>>
>> Model: A model is a representation of part of the function, structure
>> and/or behavior of
>> a system.
>>
>> The glossary does not contain an item for System, but elsewhere in the
>> document it is said
>>
>> "We use system here in the system-theoretic sense to include not only
>> software."
>>
>> So models are models of systems, and systems are something with
>> "function, structure and behavior", with models possibly referring to any
>> of these aspects. Also, it is said "Note that under this definition, source
>> code is a model that has the salient characteristic that it can be executed
>> by a machine.", which makes me think that only the execution of the code
>> provides the system under study.
>>
>> So, I'll stand by my view, but of course the group can choose either way.
>> The important thing is that all the related choices are made in a
>> consistent way.
>>
>> best
>> paolo
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/4/4 Gaelle Calvary <Gaelle.Calvary@imag.fr>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>> I have also edited the document (in pink).
>> Three comments:
>> 1- I would prefer to define AUI and CUI as SYSTEMS (i.e. things) that can
>> be modeled in different ways depending on the modeling purpose. Thus a AUI
>> (resp CUI) can PLAY THE ROLE
>> - of a pattern
>> or
>> - of a AUI model for the UI under study
>> or
>> - of .... possibly other roles not identified so far.
>> To the best of my knowledge, this is well aligned with "pure" MDE where
>> - every thing is a SYSTEM
>> - nothing is a model per se
>> - but every system can play the role of a model for another system.
>> Thus I prefer to have two entries in the glossary:
>> - the concept of AUI (grouping ...)
>> - the concept of model.
>>
>> 2- to keep the glossary as DRY (Do not Repeat Yourself) as possible, I
>> would be in favor of removing several entries (see my comments in the
>> document)
>>
>> 3- the glossary contains several (interesting) concepts, but that are not
>> mentionned in the introduction. I believed the glossary had to be limited
>> to the useful terms for reading the MBUI documents. In this case there are
>> several terms to be removed.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I have one full day project meeting today that makes me
>> impossible to join the conference call.
>> If you agree with my comments, I would be happy to "clean" the document
>> once this is agreed on. Of course, no problem if you disagree :-)
>> Kind regards
>> Gaelle
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 3 avr. 13 à 08:54, Paolo Bottoni a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I have gone through a revision of all the items with NOTE or X. I have
>> made some local corrections, or proposed alternative definitions (sorry
>> about that) and also proposed a new item: Interaction !!. All of these are
>> written in green. Plus, I have made some comments.
>>
>> The most notable thing is that I have tried to provide a revision of the
>> definitions of AUI, CUI, Physical UI, which should make the three levels
>> more consistent. In this respect, as I said over the last telcon, I do not
>> think there is such a thing as an AUI, but AUI and CUI are only modeling
>> artefact. Also, I have tried to revise uses of the term model so as to make
>> them consistent. I hope I succeeded in this.
>>
>> As I am on a 7-hour time difference, the next telcons will occur when it
>> 20.00 in Japan, making it difficult for me to join. Almost certainly, it
>> will not be possible for me to do it tomorrow
>>
>> best
>>
>> paolo
>>
>> 2013/3/30 Jaroslav Pullmann <jaroslav.pullmann@fit.**fraunhofer.de<jaroslav.pullmann@fit.fraunhofer.de>
>> >
>>
>>  Hello Joëlle,
>>
>>  yes, this marking is intended to distinguish the definition row (out of
>> possibly many associated
>>  to a single term), which is going to be published.  The inclusion of
>> terms themselves is marked
>>  on the left ("X") of the term.
>>
>>  Best regards
>>   Jaroslav
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, March 30, 2013 10:14 CET, Joëlle Coutaz <
>> joelle.coutaz@imag.fr> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Jaroslav.
>> > If I understand you correctly, you have inserted the flag "NOTE" to
>> help the group to focus on the entries for which  a final decision has to
>> be made. "NOTE" is attached to other entries than the ones you have listed
>> below as NOTE is attached to almost all the entries I have modified.
>> >
>> > I let the group make the final decision.
>> > Happy Easter,
>> > --joelle
>> >
>> > On 30 Mar 2013, at 9:43, Jaroslav Pullmann wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Dear Joëlle, dear all,
>> > >
>> > > thank you for a thorough review and complement of the glossary!
>> > > There are definitions where a final selection out of alternative
>> > > wordings should be verified/decided by placing a marking ("NOTE"):
>> > >
>> > >  Adaptability
>> > >  Adaptivity
>> > >  Distribution
>> > >  Distributed User Interface
>> > >  Elasticity
>> > >  Interactor
>> > >  Mono-target UI (bullet list only)
>> > >  Presentation Unit (pending, obsolate)
>> > >  Reification
>> > >
>> > > Because of Easter holidays I will not be available for the telcon on
>> April,
>> > > 4th. In case you agree on finalizing and publishing the glossary I
>> will take
>> > > care of the formatting.
>> > >
>> > >  Best regards
>> > >   Jaroslav
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thursday, March 28, 2013 11:49 CET, Joëlle Coutaz <
>> joelle.coutaz@imag.fr> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Hi all,
>> > >> As promised, I have edited the glossary to the best of my knowledge.
>> > >>
>> > >> First, I have focussed on the terms used in the introduction + the
>> foundational terms used in the Task and AUI documents.
>> > >> Then, I have browsed the glossary and updated a number of entries +
>> answered to most comments + added a couple of new comments.
>> > >> I hope we have made some progress towards convergence.
>> > >> My inputs are in red.
>> > >>
>> > >> Now, you own the thing!
>> > >> Best,
>> > >> --joelle
>> > >>
>> > >> ****************************************************************
>> *************
>> > >> Joelle COUTAZ, Professeur émérite
>> > >> Lab. LIG (laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble)
>> > >> 41 rue des Mathématiques, 38400 St-Martin d'Hères, France,
>> http://iihm.imag.fr/coutaz, tel. 33 4 76 51 48 54
>> > >> ****************************************************************
>> *************
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > --
>> > > Jaroslav Pullmann
>> > > Fraunhofer Institute for Applied Information Technology FIT
>> > > Web Compliance Center: http://imergo.com/ · http://imergo.de/
>> > > Schloss Birlinghoven, D-53757 Sankt Augustin, Germany
>> > > Phone: +49-2241-142623 · Fax: +49-2241-142065
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > ****************************************************************
>> *************
>> > Joelle COUTAZ, Professeur émérite
>> > Lab. LIG (laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble)
>> > 41 rue des Mathématiques, 38400 St-Martin d'Hères, France,
>> http://iihm.imag.fr/coutaz, tel. 33 4 76 51 48 54
>> > ****************************************************************
>> *************
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Jaroslav Pullmann
>> Fraunhofer Institute for Applied Information Technology FIT
>> Web Compliance Center: http://imergo.com/ · http://imergo.de/
>> Schloss Birlinghoven, D-53757 Sankt Augustin, Germany
>> Phone: +49-2241-142623 · Fax: +49-2241-142065
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paolo Bottoni
>>
>> Associate Professor of Computer Science
>>
>> Email: bottoni@di.uniroma1.it
>>
>> Website: http://w3.uniroma1.it/dipinfo/**scheda_docente.asp?cognome=**
>> Bottoni&nome=Paolo<http://w3.uniroma1.it/dipinfo/scheda_docente.asp?cognome=Bottoni&nome=Paolo>
>>
>> Phone: +39 06 4925 5166
>>
>> Fax: + 39 06 8541842
>>
>> Important conferences:
>>
>> http://www.etaps.org/
>> http://www.dsmforum.org/**events/GMLD13<http://www.dsmforum.org/events/GMLD13>
>> https://sites.google.com/site/**vlhcc2013/home<https://sites.google.com/site/vlhcc2013/home>
>> http://www.ksi.edu/seke/**vlc13cfp.html<http://www.ksi.edu/seke/vlc13cfp.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ------------------------------**-------------------------
>> Gaelle Calvary, Professeur en Informatique
>> Chargée de mission "Société du numérique" à l'Institut polytechnique de
>> Grenoble
>> Directeur adjoint du Laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble
>> 41, rue des mathématiques - BP 53 - 38041 Grenoble Cedex 9 - France
>> TeŽl : (+33) (0)4 76 51 48 54 - http://iihm.imag.fr/calvary
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ------------------------------**-------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paolo Bottoni
>>
>> Associate Professor of Computer Science
>>
>> Email: bottoni@di.uniroma1.it
>>
>> Website: http://w3.uniroma1.it/dipinfo/**scheda_docente.asp?cognome=**
>> Bottoni&nome=Paolo<http://w3.uniroma1.it/dipinfo/scheda_docente.asp?cognome=Bottoni&nome=Paolo>
>>
>> Phone: +39 06 4925 5166
>>
>> Fax: + 39 06 8541842
>>
>> Important conferences:
>>
>> http://www.etaps.org/
>> http://www.dsmforum.org/**events/GMLD13<http://www.dsmforum.org/events/GMLD13>
>> https://sites.google.com/site/**vlhcc2013/home<https://sites.google.com/site/vlhcc2013/home>
>> http://www.ksi.edu/seke/**vlc13cfp.html<http://www.ksi.edu/seke/vlc13cfp.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ------------------------------**-------------------------
>> Gaelle Calvary, Professeur en Informatique
>> Chargée de mission "Société du numérique" à l'Institut polytechnique de
>> Grenoble
>> Directeur adjoint du Laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble
>> 41, rue des mathématiques - BP 53 - 38041 Grenoble Cedex 9 - France
>> TeŽl : (+33) (0)4 76 51 48 54 - http://iihm.imag.fr/calvary
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ------------------------------**-------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paolo Bottoni
>>
>> Associate Professor of Computer Science
>>
>> Email: bottoni@di.uniroma1.it
>>
>> Website: http://w3.uniroma1.it/dipinfo/**scheda_docente.asp?cognome=**
>> Bottoni&nome=Paolo<http://w3.uniroma1.it/dipinfo/scheda_docente.asp?cognome=Bottoni&nome=Paolo>
>>
>> Phone: +39 06 4925 5166
>>
>> Fax: + 39 06 8541842
>>
>> Important conferences:
>>
>> http://www.etaps.org/
>> http://www.dsmforum.org/**events/GMLD13<http://www.dsmforum.org/events/GMLD13>
>> https://sites.google.com/site/**vlhcc2013/home<https://sites.google.com/site/vlhcc2013/home>
>> http://www.ksi.edu/seke/**vlc13cfp.html<http://www.ksi.edu/seke/vlc13cfp.html>
>>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> ------------------------------**-------------------------
> Gaelle Calvary, Professeur en Informatique
> Chargée de mission "Société du numérique" à l'Institut polytechnique de
> Grenoble
> Directeur adjoint du Laboratoire d'Informatique de Grenoble
> 41, rue des mathématiques - BP 53 - 38041 Grenoble Cedex 9 - France
> TeŽl : (+33) (0)4 76 51 48 54 - http://iihm.imag.fr/calvary
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> ------------------------------**-------------------------
>
>


-- 
Paolo Bottoni

Associate Professor of Computer Science

Email: bottoni@di.uniroma1.it

Website:
http://w3.uniroma1.it/dipinfo/scheda_docente.asp?cognome=Bottoni&nome=Paolo

Phone: +39 06 4925 5166

Fax: + 39 06 8541842

Important conferences:

http://www.etaps.org/
http://www.dsmforum.org/events/GMLD13
https://sites.google.com/site/vlhcc2013/home
http://www.ksi.edu/seke/vlc13cfp.html
Received on Friday, 5 April 2013 06:40:41 UTC

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