Re: Deal with the word "essential" now or tackle it later?

I can live with this change...

Cheers,
David MacDonald



*Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
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On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 10:51 AM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com> wrote:

> +1 to the current draft language.
>
> JF
>
> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 3:33 AM, Laura Carlson <
> laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello David and all,
>>
>> Thank you. I have updated the proposed SC text.
>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13
>>
>> Can anyone not live with the current text?
>>
>> Kindest Regards,
>>
>> Laura
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2017 4:25 PM, "David MacDonald" <david@can-adapt.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I agree with the note, and I can live without "essential". I would in
>> that
>> > case interpret "content of functionality" to not include minor problems
>> > that don't interfere with getting the information and using the page ...
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > David MacDonald
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>> > Mobile:  613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005>
>> >
>> > LinkedIn
>> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>> >
>> > twitter.com/davidmacd
>> >
>> > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>> >
>> > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *  Adapting the web to all users*
>> > *            Including those with disabilities*
>> >
>> > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
>> > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Laura Carlson <
>> > laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi David and all,
>> >>
>> >> As mentioned on issue 576, based on an evaluation of 67 pages [1]
>> >> tested between July 25 and August 3, 2017 that included top 50 Alexa
>> >> pages and some smaller pages, the combined metrics specified in the
>> >> Adapting Text SC should be feasible in WCAG 2.1 for HTML documents.
>> >> Spacing is able to adapt without loss of content or functionality
>> >> across a wide range of sites. In addition, recently 9 mega menus [2]
>> >> were tested and passed the SC.
>> >>
>> >> As you know the Working Group will be going through the implementation
>> >> process and demonstrating the implementability of all the new SCs. If
>> >> you know of examples in the wild of text in UI - (e.g. menus, etc)
>> >> where it would not be possible to meet the SC, please add them to
>> >> issue 576. We can tag that issue with the "Implementation Follow-up"
>> >> label to ensure that it is re-reviewed at that point in the process.
>> >>
>> >> But with that said, David, could you live with the current text that
>> >> removes the word "essential", if we added an editor's note such as:
>> >>
>> >> "Editors Note: The Working Group seeks examples in the wild of text
>> >> content outside of blocks of text where it would be impossible to meet
>> >> this SC. The SC's scope may be narrowed based upon implementation
>> >> testing."
>> >>
>> >> For reference the current proposed SC text [3] reads:
>> >>
>> >> <quote>
>> >> Success Criterion 1.4.13 Text Spacing
>> >>
>> >> If the technologies being used allow the user agent [4] to set text
>> >> [5] style properties [6], then no loss of content or functionality
>> >> occurs by setting all of the following and by changing no other style
>> >> property:
>> >>
>> >> * Line height (line spacing) to at least 1.5 times the font size;
>> >> * Spacing underneath paragraphs to at least 2 times the font size;
>> >> * Letter spacing (tracking) to at least 0.12 times the font size;
>> >> * Word spacing to at least 0.16 times the font size.
>> >>
>> >> <end quote>
>> >>
>> >> Thank you.
>> >>
>> >> Kindest Regards,
>> >> Laura
>> >>
>> >> [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Results_of_Bookmarklet_Tests_
>> >> for_Issue_78
>> >> [2]https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/576#issuecomment-345843140
>> >> [3] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13#SC_Text
>> >> [4] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-user-agent
>> >> [5] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-text
>> >> [6] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-style-properties
>> >>
>> >> On 11/14/17, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com> wrote:
>> >> >> My concern is that “nothing important is lost” risks making the SC
>> not
>> >> > reliably testable. I would prefer to avoid such language. By doing
>> so,
>> >> > accessibility is also enhanced.
>> >> >
>> >> > I agree that testability is always a concern. However, without a
>> >> qualifier,
>> >> > then any minor artifacts in the transition will fail WCAG. If we
>> remove
>> >> > essential and don't replace it with another qualifier, then I think
>> it
>> >> > should be limited to "blocks of text"
>> >> > https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/576
>> >> >
>> >> > We've had 2 reputable commenters who are veteran full time
>> accessibility
>> >> > professionals and testers, ask that this SC get changed to "Blocks of
>> >> > Text",
>> >> >  Jan Richards of the IDRC <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/551
>> >,
>> >> and
>> >> > Aiden
>> >> > from TD Bank <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/469>.
>> >> > I'd like to add my voice to that concern. I was the author of SC
>> 1.4.8
>> >> in
>> >> > WCAG 2.0. And the "blocks of text" language was carefully
>> negotiated, I
>> >> > never could have got through without that. I think we should
>> carefully
>> >> > consider "Blocks of Text". Without that, there are a lot of
>> variables,
>> >> and
>> >> > possible confusion. It might become a stumbling block for the SC in
>> CR.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers,
>> >> > David MacDonald
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>> >> > Mobile:  613.806.9005
>> >> >
>> >> > LinkedIn
>> >> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>> >> >
>> >> > twitter.com/davidmacd
>> >> >
>> >> > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>> >> >
>> >> > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > *  Adapting the web to all users*
>> >> > *            Including those with disabilities*
>> >> >
>> >> > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
>> policy
>> >> > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:37 AM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> My concern is that “nothing important is lost” risks making the SC
>> not
>> >> >> reliably testable. I would prefer to avoid such language. By doing
>> so,
>> >> >> accessibility is also enhanced.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david@can-adapt.com]
>> >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:30 AM
>> >> >> *To:* Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
>> >> >> *Cc:* Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>; White, Jason J <
>> >> >> jjwhite@ets.org>; Repsher, Stephen J <stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com>
>> ;
>> >> WCAG
>> >> >> <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> >> >> *Subject:* Re: Deal with the word "essential" now or tackle it
>> later?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I don't think we want to loose the idea that "some" loss of content
>> and
>> >> >> functionality is acceptable as long as nothing important is lost.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cheers,
>> >> >> David MacDonald
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mobile:  613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> LinkedIn
>> >> >>
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%
>> >> 2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data=02%
>> >> 7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%
>> >> 7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837
>> >> 116&sdata=Lir2vskakn6MX2frF8w6y4JbAcCu8fxJ9Qwb9Cgb300%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> twitter.com/davidmacd
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%
>> >> 2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.
>> >> org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f
>> >> 37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=Elps11ImTbC
>> >> Teuk3mmmINFY5H7ANDzaJTZK9gD1liPA%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> GitHub
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
>> >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%
>> >> 40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34
>> >> fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=DAmBg
>> >> c3O%2FNy3QlufeouMu33tedymPTWeOBo%2B1%2BcI6AQ%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> www.Can-Adapt.com
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%
>> >> 2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.
>> >> org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f
>> >> 37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=KV0lh06nLBD
>> >> fm1q2sdulGjq6Qe6IbOLEHuOzTuhJ8AA%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *            Including those with disabilities*
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
>> policy
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%
>> >> 2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02%7C01
>> >> %7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0b
>> >> a6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&
>> >> sdata=SHmjoeBrQIoI1I3kn%2BLYFG8CFgOhY39ru0q3kw4PL%2BE%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Laura Carlson <
>> >> >> laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi Jason, David, Andrew, Steve, and all,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Regarding the latest proposed adapting text SC text, Jason wrote
>> [1]:
>> >> >> >> It doesn't eliminate the use of the word "essential", which is
>> not
>> >> >> >> here
>> >> >> used in accordance with its WCAG definition.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> David wrote [2]:
>> >> >> > That word is in both proposals so I think we should consider that
>> >> >> separately... perhaps you can file an issue on github.​
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It seems we already have an open issue for Use of "essential" for
>> >> >> several SCs including adapting text. It is #372 [3].
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Andrew, Issue 372 wasn't listed for Adapting Text  SC (or any of the
>> >> >> others) in your November 6 email [4] so I didn't add to the the Wiki
>> >> >> page with the rest of proposals for resolving Adapting Text issues
>> >> >> [5]. Should I add it to the Wiki page? Or should we deal with Issue
>> >> >> 372 later?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On September 25, Steve commented in Issue 372 regarding the use of
>> the
>> >> >> word "essential" in the Adapting Text SC. He said [6]:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "The criterion refers to "no loss of essential content or
>> >> >> functionality". The word seems to have been introduced by @awkawk
>> in a
>> >> >> comment way back in March [7], but I could not find any rationale
>> for
>> >> >> its inclusion in the language (i.e. an example of content loss that
>> >> >> would be acceptable). Given this, and the fact that both Resize Text
>> >> >> and Zoom Content refer to "loss of content or functionality" without
>> >> >> using essential, I propose to simply remove the word from this SC."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Andrew and all, would you be able to live with removing the word
>> >> >> essential from the SC?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thank you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Kindest Regards,
>> >> >> Laura
>> >> >>
>> >> >> [1] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/0
>> >> 376.html
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
>> >> 3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-gl%
>> >> 2F2017OctDec%2F0376.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C
>> >> 8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd
>> >> d9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=gPwzB5W4eBS3GtUOF
>> >> n3zkoFkL6xahJJ4%2BmlC%2F%2FVxkAo%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >> [2]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDe
>> >> c/0374.html
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
>> >> 3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-gl%
>> >> 2F2017OctDec%2F0374.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C
>> >> 8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd
>> >> d9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=cT0UhrvKsF0t5IUWB
>> >> k8F6xRpIy%2Fqh9ncj7M3%2BxJrS8s%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >> [3] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/372
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
>> >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F372&data=
>> >> 02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c32
>> >> 54%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054
>> >> 837116&sdata=gagg72um8D90V1Wo59oTQu4pdDddMx19x%2Fn0a413tPk%
>> 3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >> [4] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/0
>> >> 313.html
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
>> >> 3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-gl%
>> >> 2F2017OctDec%2F0313.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C
>> >> 8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd
>> >> d9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=XLm%2FxtYIeB3ZqrZ
>> >> aYDfGxWvBj0okkd2QUBcL3Vu6%2Fo0%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >> [5]
>> >> >> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
>> >> 3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FComment_Summary_1-4-
>> >> 13&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e0
>> >> 6408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C
>> >> 636462666054837116&sdata=5uk17yXjWGErchrzKJvhwXLoJYne6GDY5U6
>> >> OZ536r2M%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >> [6] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/372#issuecomment-331950411
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
>> >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F372%23issu
>> >> ecomment-331950411&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cd
>> >> f0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e
>> >> 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=JISpZMF9yF9tGJGJd5Xu
>> >> 8BhDIqu%2BogD01ukBRb%2BxOmE%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >> [7] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/78#issuecomment-289792275
>> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
>> >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F78%23issue
>> >> comment-289792275&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cd
>> >> f0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e
>> >> 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=sspSef%2BcIJClGUIh2l
>> >> OnmT4YzSm4IkJeCJ4YaA1RiZI%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Laura L. Carlson
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
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>> >> --
>> >> Laura L. Carlson
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> John Foliot
> Principal Accessibility Strategist
> Deque Systems Inc.
> john.foliot@deque.com
>
> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>