Re: Deal with the word "essential" now or tackle it later?

+1 to the current draft language.

JF

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 3:33 AM, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello David and all,
>
> Thank you. I have updated the proposed SC text.
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13
>
> Can anyone not live with the current text?
>
> Kindest Regards,
>
> Laura
>
> On Nov 24, 2017 4:25 PM, "David MacDonald" <david@can-adapt.com> wrote:
>
> > I agree with the note, and I can live without "essential". I would in
> that
> > case interpret "content of functionality" to not include minor problems
> > that don't interfere with getting the information and using the page ...
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > David MacDonald
> >
> >
> >
> > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
> > Mobile:  613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005>
> >
> > LinkedIn
> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
> >
> > twitter.com/davidmacd
> >
> > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
> >
> > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> > *  Adapting the web to all users*
> > *            Including those with disabilities*
> >
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> >
> > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Laura Carlson <
> > laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi David and all,
> >>
> >> As mentioned on issue 576, based on an evaluation of 67 pages [1]
> >> tested between July 25 and August 3, 2017 that included top 50 Alexa
> >> pages and some smaller pages, the combined metrics specified in the
> >> Adapting Text SC should be feasible in WCAG 2.1 for HTML documents.
> >> Spacing is able to adapt without loss of content or functionality
> >> across a wide range of sites. In addition, recently 9 mega menus [2]
> >> were tested and passed the SC.
> >>
> >> As you know the Working Group will be going through the implementation
> >> process and demonstrating the implementability of all the new SCs. If
> >> you know of examples in the wild of text in UI - (e.g. menus, etc)
> >> where it would not be possible to meet the SC, please add them to
> >> issue 576. We can tag that issue with the "Implementation Follow-up"
> >> label to ensure that it is re-reviewed at that point in the process.
> >>
> >> But with that said, David, could you live with the current text that
> >> removes the word "essential", if we added an editor's note such as:
> >>
> >> "Editors Note: The Working Group seeks examples in the wild of text
> >> content outside of blocks of text where it would be impossible to meet
> >> this SC. The SC's scope may be narrowed based upon implementation
> >> testing."
> >>
> >> For reference the current proposed SC text [3] reads:
> >>
> >> <quote>
> >> Success Criterion 1.4.13 Text Spacing
> >>
> >> If the technologies being used allow the user agent [4] to set text
> >> [5] style properties [6], then no loss of content or functionality
> >> occurs by setting all of the following and by changing no other style
> >> property:
> >>
> >> * Line height (line spacing) to at least 1.5 times the font size;
> >> * Spacing underneath paragraphs to at least 2 times the font size;
> >> * Letter spacing (tracking) to at least 0.12 times the font size;
> >> * Word spacing to at least 0.16 times the font size.
> >>
> >> <end quote>
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >> Kindest Regards,
> >> Laura
> >>
> >> [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Results_of_Bookmarklet_Tests_
> >> for_Issue_78
> >> [2]https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/576#issuecomment-345843140
> >> [3] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13#SC_Text
> >> [4] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-user-agent
> >> [5] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-text
> >> [6] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-style-properties
> >>
> >> On 11/14/17, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com> wrote:
> >> >> My concern is that “nothing important is lost” risks making the SC
> not
> >> > reliably testable. I would prefer to avoid such language. By doing so,
> >> > accessibility is also enhanced.
> >> >
> >> > I agree that testability is always a concern. However, without a
> >> qualifier,
> >> > then any minor artifacts in the transition will fail WCAG. If we
> remove
> >> > essential and don't replace it with another qualifier, then I think it
> >> > should be limited to "blocks of text"
> >> > https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/576
> >> >
> >> > We've had 2 reputable commenters who are veteran full time
> accessibility
> >> > professionals and testers, ask that this SC get changed to "Blocks of
> >> > Text",
> >> >  Jan Richards of the IDRC <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/551>,
> >> and
> >> > Aiden
> >> > from TD Bank <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/469>.
> >> > I'd like to add my voice to that concern. I was the author of SC 1.4.8
> >> in
> >> > WCAG 2.0. And the "blocks of text" language was carefully negotiated,
> I
> >> > never could have got through without that. I think we should carefully
> >> > consider "Blocks of Text". Without that, there are a lot of variables,
> >> and
> >> > possible confusion. It might become a stumbling block for the SC in
> CR.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > David MacDonald
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
> >> > Mobile:  613.806.9005
> >> >
> >> > LinkedIn
> >> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
> >> >
> >> > twitter.com/davidmacd
> >> >
> >> > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
> >> >
> >> > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > *  Adapting the web to all users*
> >> > *            Including those with disabilities*
> >> >
> >> > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
> policy
> >> > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:37 AM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> My concern is that “nothing important is lost” risks making the SC
> not
> >> >> reliably testable. I would prefer to avoid such language. By doing
> so,
> >> >> accessibility is also enhanced.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david@can-adapt.com]
> >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:30 AM
> >> >> *To:* Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
> >> >> *Cc:* Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>; White, Jason J <
> >> >> jjwhite@ets.org>; Repsher, Stephen J <stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com>;
> >> WCAG
> >> >> <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> >> >> *Subject:* Re: Deal with the word "essential" now or tackle it later?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't think we want to loose the idea that "some" loss of content
> and
> >> >> functionality is acceptable as long as nothing important is lost.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> David MacDonald
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
> >> >>
> >> >> Mobile:  613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005>
> >> >>
> >> >> LinkedIn
> >> >>
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%
> >> 2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data=02%
> >> 7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%
> >> 7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837
> >> 116&sdata=Lir2vskakn6MX2frF8w6y4JbAcCu8fxJ9Qwb9Cgb300%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >>
> >> >> twitter.com/davidmacd
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%
> >> 2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.
> >> org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f
> >> 37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=Elps11ImTbC
> >> Teuk3mmmINFY5H7ANDzaJTZK9gD1liPA%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >>
> >> >> GitHub
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
> >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%
> >> 40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34
> >> fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=DAmBg
> >> c3O%2FNy3QlufeouMu33tedymPTWeOBo%2B1%2BcI6AQ%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >>
> >> >> www.Can-Adapt.com
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%
> >> 2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.
> >> org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f
> >> 37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=KV0lh06nLBD
> >> fm1q2sdulGjq6Qe6IbOLEHuOzTuhJ8AA%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> *  Adapting the web to all users*
> >> >>
> >> >> *            Including those with disabilities*
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
> policy
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%
> >> 2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02%7C01
> >> %7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0b
> >> a6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&
> >> sdata=SHmjoeBrQIoI1I3kn%2BLYFG8CFgOhY39ru0q3kw4PL%2BE%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Laura Carlson <
> >> >> laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Jason, David, Andrew, Steve, and all,
> >> >>
> >> >> Regarding the latest proposed adapting text SC text, Jason wrote [1]:
> >> >> >> It doesn't eliminate the use of the word "essential", which is not
> >> >> >> here
> >> >> used in accordance with its WCAG definition.
> >> >>
> >> >> David wrote [2]:
> >> >> > That word is in both proposals so I think we should consider that
> >> >> separately... perhaps you can file an issue on github.​
> >> >>
> >> >> It seems we already have an open issue for Use of "essential" for
> >> >> several SCs including adapting text. It is #372 [3].
> >> >>
> >> >> Andrew, Issue 372 wasn't listed for Adapting Text  SC (or any of the
> >> >> others) in your November 6 email [4] so I didn't add to the the Wiki
> >> >> page with the rest of proposals for resolving Adapting Text issues
> >> >> [5]. Should I add it to the Wiki page? Or should we deal with Issue
> >> >> 372 later?
> >> >>
> >> >> On September 25, Steve commented in Issue 372 regarding the use of
> the
> >> >> word "essential" in the Adapting Text SC. He said [6]:
> >> >>
> >> >> "The criterion refers to "no loss of essential content or
> >> >> functionality". The word seems to have been introduced by @awkawk in
> a
> >> >> comment way back in March [7], but I could not find any rationale for
> >> >> its inclusion in the language (i.e. an example of content loss that
> >> >> would be acceptable). Given this, and the fact that both Resize Text
> >> >> and Zoom Content refer to "loss of content or functionality" without
> >> >> using essential, I propose to simply remove the word from this SC."
> >> >>
> >> >> Andrew and all, would you be able to live with removing the word
> >> >> essential from the SC?
> >> >>
> >> >> Thank you.
> >> >>
> >> >> Kindest Regards,
> >> >> Laura
> >> >>
> >> >> [1] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/0
> >> 376.html
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
> >> 3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-gl%
> >> 2F2017OctDec%2F0376.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C
> >> 8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd
> >> d9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=gPwzB5W4eBS3GtUOF
> >> n3zkoFkL6xahJJ4%2BmlC%2F%2FVxkAo%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >> [2]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDe
> >> c/0374.html
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
> >> 3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-gl%
> >> 2F2017OctDec%2F0374.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C
> >> 8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd
> >> d9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=cT0UhrvKsF0t5IUWB
> >> k8F6xRpIy%2Fqh9ncj7M3%2BxJrS8s%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >> [3] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/372
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
> >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F372&data=
> >> 02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c32
> >> 54%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054
> >> 837116&sdata=gagg72um8D90V1Wo59oTQu4pdDddMx
> 19x%2Fn0a413tPk%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >> [4] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/0
> >> 313.html
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
> >> 3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-gl%
> >> 2F2017OctDec%2F0313.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C
> >> 8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd
> >> d9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=XLm%2FxtYIeB3ZqrZ
> >> aYDfGxWvBj0okkd2QUBcL3Vu6%2Fo0%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >> [5]
> >> >> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
> >> 3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FComment_Summary_1-4-
> >> 13&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e0
> >> 6408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C
> >> 636462666054837116&sdata=5uk17yXjWGErchrzKJvhwXLoJYne6GDY5U6
> >> OZ536r2M%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >> [6] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/372#issuecomment-331950411
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
> >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F372%23issu
> >> ecomment-331950411&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cd
> >> f0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e
> >> 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=JISpZMF9yF9tGJGJd5Xu
> >> 8BhDIqu%2BogD01ukBRb%2BxOmE%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >> [7] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/78#issuecomment-289792275
> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%
> >> 3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F78%23issue
> >> comment-289792275&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cd
> >> f0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e
> >> 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=sspSef%2BcIJClGUIh2l
> >> OnmT4YzSm4IkJeCJ4YaA1RiZI%3D&reserved=0>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Laura L. Carlson
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
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> >> >
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> >> --
> >> Laura L. Carlson
> >>
> >
> >
>
>


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John Foliot
Principal Accessibility Strategist
Deque Systems Inc.
john.foliot@deque.com

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