W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org > October 2016

Re: Metadata on Mouse-Over SC

From: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 16:22:23 -0500
Message-ID: <CAOavpveriOmqDvbHYyKrjT5PqhY6hZ8VrktWb21qBbD=YDLz1A@mail.gmail.com>
To: ALAN SMITH <alands289@gmail.com>, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
Cc: "Rochford, John" <john.rochford@umassmed.edu>, public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Hi Alan,

The issue does not solely occur in ZoomText.

As we discussed last March [1] the issue also occurs in OS X when the
cursor is enlarged. As discussed then:

1.) Choose Apple menu > System Preferences, then click Accessibility.
2.) Click "Display" then drag the Cursor Size slider to the right from
normal to large.

The test page is at:
http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/obscured_tooltip_on_hover/test.html

The March 2016 results were the same as the 2015 test at zoom levels
from 0 and up with a medium large and a large cursor I have added this
to the Wiki.

Today, to make sure I tested in again in Chrome, Safari, and Firefox
on El Captain. The results are the same. The large cursor overlaps the
tooltips making them unreadable. I will write those up add the results
to the page.

But with that all said, if we can address the issue in a different SC
that would be fine with me. We still have the seeing all Seeing All
Interface Elements SC, where the issue is described. Tool tip text
does not enlarging may better fit there or perhaps the Text Size SC
could work. Your thoughts?

Alastair had suggested the metadata SC to address the issue. Your
thoughts, Alastair?

P.S. Alan, I added the full HTML5 quote to the wiki page. Thank you.

Thanks,
Laura

[1] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Mar/0032.html
[2] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Seeing_All_Interface_Elements


On 10/24/16, alands289@gmail.com <alands289@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was accidently not added back onto the mailing list for the LVTF for
> several months.
>
> Now that I’m back on the mailing list, I received this email chain.
>
> I’m questioning the validity of this SC based on two false premises.
> The description states:
> Authors should not put important information in title attributes that can
> become unreadable when content and cursors are enlarged. Information is
> available through more than one mechanism
>
> 1) The tooltips that are overlapped look to be from the ZoomText product
> alone.
> a. My testing of Firefox, Chrome, IE 11 and EDGE do not show this issue.
> b. I tried with the largest cursor setting and 300% zoom on PCs with 10
> inch, 15.6 and 24 inch monitors, the tool tips are always outside of the
> cursor hand. Firefox and Chrome have them below the hand and IE and EDGE
> have them above the hand.
> c. With ZoomText the title text does have several letters covered only on
> Chrome and Firefox when it is enlarged
> d. Therefore, this is not a browser or user agent issue but a specific AT
> product bug.
> 2) Furthermore, the other premise that is not correctly documented is that
> HTML5 Recommendation warning authors against the use of which is not fully
> quoted. The SC documentation stated:
> a. Relying on the title attribute is currently discouraged as many user
> agents do not expose the attribute in an accessible manner as required by
> this specification...
> b. If this alone was all there is then this is also a bug in the guidelines
> being met and not the guidelines themselves.
> c. The rest of the text was missing which is relevant to the discussion of
> its use with a mouse: (e.g., requiring a pointing device such as a mouse to
> cause a tooltip to appear, which excludes keyboard-only users and touch-only
> users, such as anyone with a modern phone or tablet).
> d. So, the HTML5 discouragement of title usages is due to the lack of
> keyboard and touch-only usage, not related to mouseover usage.
> e. Screen readers do announce titles in most cases on PCs. If the title is a
> duplicate of the link text it is associated, then JAWS will not announce
> it.
> f. But that is not the issue here.
> 3) The attempt to write up that this information needs to be available
> through more than one mechanism will put undue demands for developers based
> on a false premise of a bug with Zoom Text and not the user agents.
> 4) If there is a need for touch access to titles then that is a separate
> issue and not related to enlarged cursors in ZoomText covering several
> letters of titles being displayed on two browsers.
>
> 5) It is correct that  tool tip text does not enlarge which I’m sure is a
> separate issue.
>
>
> Alan
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Laura Carlson
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 10:49 AM
> To: Rochford, John
> Cc: public-low-vision-a11y-tf
> Subject: Re: Metadata on Mouse-Over SC
>
> Hi John,
>
> You are right, of course. I've moved "Metadata on Mouse-Over" to
> "Metadata On Hover". A redirect has been created.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kindest Regards,
> Laura
>
> On 10/24/16, Rochford, John <john.rochford@umassmed.edu> wrote:
>> Hi Laura,
>>
>> Okay, then I will be even bolder with this suggestion: Shouldn't the SC
>> title be "Metadata On Hover", not " Metadata on Mouse-Over"?
>>
>> John
>>
>> John Rochford
>> UMass Medical School/E.K. Shriver Center
>> Director, INDEX Program
>> Instructor, Family Medicine & Community Health
>> www.DisabilityInfo.org
>> Twitter: @ClearHelper
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice:
>> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of
>> the
>> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary, and
>> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
>> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
>> contact the sender immediately and destroy or permanently delete all
>> copies
>> of the original message.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:13 AM
>> To: Rochford, John <john.rochford@umassmed.edu>
>> Cc: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
>> Subject: Re: Metadata on Mouse-Over SC
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Good suggestion. Thank you! I updated the Wiki page.
>>
>> Kindest Regards,
>> Laura
>>
>> On 10/24/16, Rochford, John <john.rochford@umassmed.edu> wrote:
>>> Hi Laura,
>>>
>>> To include mobile, I suggest using "hover" rather than "mouse-over".
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> John Rochford
>>> UMass Medical School/E.K. Shriver Center Director, INDEX Program
>>> Instructor, Family Medicine & Community Health www.DisabilityInfo.org
>>> Twitter: @ClearHelper
>>>
>>> Confidentiality Notice:
>>> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of
>>> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary,
>>> and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure,
>>> or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please contact the sender immediately and destroy or permanently
>>> delete all copies of the original message.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:42 PM
>>> To: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>;
>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>>> Subject: New: Metadata on Mouse-Over SC
>>>
>>> Hello Alastair, Andrew, and all,
>>>
>>> As discussed and promised [1] I have drafted a new "Metadata on
>>> Mouse-Over" SC. It is at:
>>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Metadata_on_Mouse-Ov
>>> er
>>>
>>> I have added it to our Tracking Success Criteria Progress Table [2].
>>>
>>> If the new SC is accepted, I think we may be able to retire the
>>> "Seeing all elements" SC [3].
>>>
>>> Many thanks to Alastair who provided critical verbiage. Very much
>>> appreciated. The rest is mostly from the Seeing All Interface Elements
>>> SC.
>>>
>>> Ideas for improvement are most welcome. Otherwise, I think it is ready
>>> for survey.
>>>
>>> Kindest Regards,
>>> Laura
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Oct
>>> /0073.html
>>> [2]
>>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Tracking_Success_Cri
>>> teria_Progress
>>> [3]
>>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Seeing_All_Interface
>>> _Elements
>>>

-- 
Laura L. Carlson
Received on Monday, 24 October 2016 21:22:53 UTC

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