W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org > October 2016

RE: Metadata on Mouse-Over SC

From: <alands289@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 13:10:01 -0400
Message-ID: <580e406c.fd21c80a.23dae.5b2a@mx.google.com>
To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, "Rochford, John" <john.rochford@umassmed.edu>
Cc: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
I was accidently not added back onto the mailing list for the LVTF for several months.

Now that I’m back on the mailing list, I received this email chain.

I’m questioning the validity of this SC based on two false premises.
The description states: 
Authors should not put important information in title attributes that can become unreadable when content and cursors are enlarged. Information is available through more than one mechanism

1) The tooltips that are overlapped look to be from the ZoomText product alone.
a. My testing of Firefox, Chrome, IE 11 and EDGE do not show this issue.
b. I tried with the largest cursor setting and 300% zoom on PCs with 10 inch, 15.6 and 24 inch monitors, the tool tips are always outside of the cursor hand. Firefox and Chrome have them below the hand and IE and EDGE have them above the hand.
c. With ZoomText the title text does have several letters covered only on Chrome and Firefox when it is enlarged
d. Therefore, this is not a browser or user agent issue but a specific AT product bug.
2) Furthermore, the other premise that is not correctly documented is that HTML5 Recommendation warning authors against the use of which is not fully quoted. The SC documentation stated:
a. Relying on the title attribute is currently discouraged as many user agents do not expose the attribute in an accessible manner as required by this specification...
b. If this alone was all there is then this is also a bug in the guidelines being met and not the guidelines themselves.
c. The rest of the text was missing which is relevant to the discussion of its use with a mouse: (e.g., requiring a pointing device such as a mouse to cause a tooltip to appear, which excludes keyboard-only users and touch-only users, such as anyone with a modern phone or tablet).
d. So, the HTML5 discouragement of title usages is due to the lack of keyboard and touch-only usage, not related to mouseover usage.
e. Screen readers do announce titles in most cases on PCs. If the title is a duplicate of the link text it is associated, then JAWS will not announce it.
f. But that is not the issue here.
3) The attempt to write up that this information needs to be available through more than one mechanism will put undue demands for developers based on a false premise of a bug with Zoom Text and not the user agents.
4) If there is a need for touch access to titles then that is a separate issue and not related to enlarged cursors in ZoomText covering several letters of titles being displayed on two browsers.

5) It is correct that  tool tip text does not enlarge which I’m sure is a separate issue.


Alan

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Laura Carlson
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 10:49 AM
To: Rochford, John
Cc: public-low-vision-a11y-tf
Subject: Re: Metadata on Mouse-Over SC

Hi John,

You are right, of course. I've moved "Metadata on Mouse-Over" to
"Metadata On Hover". A redirect has been created.

Thanks!

Kindest Regards,
Laura

On 10/24/16, Rochford, John <john.rochford@umassmed.edu> wrote:
> Hi Laura,
>
> Okay, then I will be even bolder with this suggestion: Shouldn't the SC
> title be "Metadata On Hover", not " Metadata on Mouse-Over"?
>
> John
>
> John Rochford
> UMass Medical School/E.K. Shriver Center
> Director, INDEX Program
> Instructor, Family Medicine & Community Health
> www.DisabilityInfo.org
> Twitter: @ClearHelper
>
> Confidentiality Notice:
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary, and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender immediately and destroy or permanently delete all copies
> of the original message.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:13 AM
> To: Rochford, John <john.rochford@umassmed.edu>
> Cc: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Metadata on Mouse-Over SC
>
> Hi John,
>
> Good suggestion. Thank you! I updated the Wiki page.
>
> Kindest Regards,
> Laura
>
> On 10/24/16, Rochford, John <john.rochford@umassmed.edu> wrote:
>> Hi Laura,
>>
>> To include mobile, I suggest using "hover" rather than "mouse-over".
>>
>> John
>>
>> John Rochford
>> UMass Medical School/E.K. Shriver Center Director, INDEX Program
>> Instructor, Family Medicine & Community Health www.DisabilityInfo.org
>> Twitter: @ClearHelper
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice:
>> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of
>> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary,
>> and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure,
>> or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
>> please contact the sender immediately and destroy or permanently
>> delete all copies of the original message.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:42 PM
>> To: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>;
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>> Subject: New: Metadata on Mouse-Over SC
>>
>> Hello Alastair, Andrew, and all,
>>
>> As discussed and promised [1] I have drafted a new "Metadata on
>> Mouse-Over" SC. It is at:
>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Metadata_on_Mouse-Ov
>> er
>>
>> I have added it to our Tracking Success Criteria Progress Table [2].
>>
>> If the new SC is accepted, I think we may be able to retire the
>> "Seeing all elements" SC [3].
>>
>> Many thanks to Alastair who provided critical verbiage. Very much
>> appreciated. The rest is mostly from the Seeing All Interface Elements
>> SC.
>>
>> Ideas for improvement are most welcome. Otherwise, I think it is ready
>> for survey.
>>
>> Kindest Regards,
>> Laura
>>
>> [1]
>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Oct
>> /0073.html
>> [2]
>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Tracking_Success_Cri
>> teria_Progress
>> [3]
>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Seeing_All_Interface
>> _Elements
>>
>> --
>> Laura L. Carlson
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Laura L. Carlson
>


-- 
Laura L. Carlson
Received on Monday, 24 October 2016 17:10:35 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Thursday, 27 April 2017 14:44:31 UTC