Re: Release of SAGE 1.0: a stable, responsive and unrestricted SPARQL query server

On 9/9/18 1:07 PM, Hugh Glaser wrote:
> Thanks Kingsley.
>
> I can well understand your concerns about the claims made in the announcement, of course, and why you would want to examine them.
> I too was surprised, and am keen to understand them better.
>
> I confess to still being rather confused, although that is not unusual.
>
> One thing I do find strange - you seem to be talking about SPARQL Protocol:
>> 1. Apples vs Apples -- are we comparing SPARQL Protocol endpoints or Web
> But I saw no claims about SPARQL Protocol in the announcement.
> It is about a SPARQL query server.

They referred to a SPARQL Endpoint which is what's associated with the
SPARQL Protocol.

As Ruben explained in his replies, the problem is the generic use of
SPARQL (a recursive acronym) which is a bug rather than feature, as this
issue demonstrates.

>
> Is that a significant difference in terms of the discussion, or should I just ignore it?

We have problem with terminology and the prevalence of recursive
acronyms like SPARQL.

>
> I still don't understand why you can't just download Sage and run SPARQL queries on it, and compare the performance with Virtuoso doing the same thing - surely that would enable you to test their claim?

Because my point is that they don't understand what our "Anytime
Feature" is and thus don't understand its relevance to the problem at
hand i.e., ad-hoc SPARQL  query services published to the Web.

We have many live instances that support our claims about the
aforementioned capability. Thus, a "like for like" comparison has to
offer a query endpoint that supports ad-hoc queries by anything (human
or machine). Otherwise, what are we comparing?

My demonstrable claim is simple:
You can publish a SPARQL Query Service on the Web that allows ad-hoc
SPARQL Queries from anywhere by humans or macnines.  If an alternative
claims it can do better, then at the very least it should produce a
comparable endpoint, right?
> I guess I am missing something, but maybe you or someone else can help me.

I am trying to :)

Kingsley
>
> Best
> Hugh
>
>> On 9 Sep 2018, at 16:47, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/8/18 7:08 PM, Hugh Glaser wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>> Not really my business (:-) - but that has never stopped me!), but I really don't understand the request for a live endpoint.
>>> If I want to evaluate different implementations of a software system, what I do is download or implement on my own server, and then run them (multiple times) over the same datasets on the same hardware configuration etc, so that I am comparing the same things while controlling as many variables as possible.
>>> Running stuff on other peoples' servers, with no reliable knowledge of the hardware or possibly even the datasets, seems of no value in terms of relative performance.
>>> So why are you asking for a SPARQL endpoint?
>>> Best
>>> Hugh
>> Hi Hugh,
>>
>> This is about proving or disproving a claim along the following lines:
>>
>> 1. Apples vs Apples -- are we comparing SPARQL Protocol endpoints or Web
>> Pages pegged to specific datasets running canned queries?
>>
>> 2. Conceptual understanding -- the concepts behind our "Anytime Query"
>> feature are only demonstrable using a live endpoint, in this context
>> i.e., the revealing claim about complete or incomplete solutions
>>
>> As I think you know, I am not going to accept questionable claims made
>> in public forums about our products.
>>
>> If I made these audacious claims be rest assured I would have a live
>> instance for objective verification. I wouldn't be directing folks to a
>> paper.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Kingsley
>>>> On 8 Sep 2018, at 19:31, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 9/8/18 4:23 AM, Pascal Molli wrote:
>>>>> Dear Kingsley,
>>>>>
>>>>> We detail how, and in which context, we achieved the SaGe result in:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas Minier, Hala Skaf-Molli, Pascal Molli. SaGe: Preemptive Query Execution for
>>>>> High Data Availability on the Web. 2018. 〈hal-01806486〉
>>>> Hi Pascal,
>>>>
>>>> You re making claims that are best verified in a live environment i.e., one of the fundamental virtues of a SPARQL endpoint. 
>>>>
>>>> We have many live endpoints:
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://dbpedia.org/sparql
>>>> [2] http://dbpedia-live.openlinksw.com/sparql
>>>> [3] http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/sparql
>>>> [4] http://lod.openlinksw.com/sparql
>>>>
>>>> many others published by others. 
>>>>
>>>> We even share documents regarding configuration [1].
>>>>
>>>>> The result is confirmed with extensive benchmarks with Virtuoso, TPF and BrTPF.
>>>>> The paper details how to re-run the experimentations.
>>>> No, you are observations from a setup constructed by you. I am requesting that you demonstrate your claims via a live SPARQL endpoint, not a paper. I am requesting this for a specific reason, so can you provide this or not? 
>>>>
>>>>> To improve data availability for end-users, we optimized the SaGe server for 
>>>>> public LOD servers with read-only datasets. SaGe  preempts running 
>>>>> queries at low cost to provide a stable, responsive and unrestricted service 
>>>>> in this context.
>>>>>
>>>>> The "Anytime Query" capability of a Virtuoso server is great but does not ensure complete
>>>>> answers. 
>>>> Again, until you provide a live SPARQL endpoint you will not actually understand why "Anytime Query" actually exists i.e., you "..is great but does not ensure complete answers" speaks for itself. 
>>>>
>>>>> If you need more details about our results, we will be happy to share with you what we 
>>>>> observed on Virtuoso.
>>>> Can you provide a live SPARQL endpoint or not? 
>>>>
>>>> Kingsley 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Pascal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Kingsley Idehen       
>>>> Founder & CEO 
>>>> OpenLink Software   (Home Page: 
>>>> http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>> )
>>>>
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>>>>
>> -- 
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen       
>> Founder & CEO 
>> OpenLink Software   (Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com)
>>
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-- 
Regards,

Kingsley Idehen       
Founder & CEO 
OpenLink Software   (Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com)

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