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Re: Release of SAGE 1.0: a stable, responsive and unrestricted SPARQL query server

From: Hugh Glaser <hugh@glasers.org>
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 18:07:08 +0100
Cc: public-lod@w3.org
Message-Id: <257C5044-7C9C-4F59-B1D0-D3ACF2A72BE7@glasers.org>
To: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Thanks Kingsley.

I can well understand your concerns about the claims made in the announcement, of course, and why you would want to examine them.
I too was surprised, and am keen to understand them better.

I confess to still being rather confused, although that is not unusual.

One thing I do find strange - you seem to be talking about SPARQL Protocol:
> 1. Apples vs Apples -- are we comparing SPARQL Protocol endpoints or Web
But I saw no claims about SPARQL Protocol in the announcement.
It is about a SPARQL query server.

Is that a significant difference in terms of the discussion, or should I just ignore it?

I still don't understand why you can't just download Sage and run SPARQL queries on it, and compare the performance with Virtuoso doing the same thing - surely that would enable you to test their claim?
I guess I am missing something, but maybe you or someone else can help me.

Best
Hugh

> On 9 Sep 2018, at 16:47, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
> 
> On 9/8/18 7:08 PM, Hugh Glaser wrote:
>> Hi.
>> Not really my business (:-) - but that has never stopped me!), but I really don't understand the request for a live endpoint.
>> If I want to evaluate different implementations of a software system, what I do is download or implement on my own server, and then run them (multiple times) over the same datasets on the same hardware configuration etc, so that I am comparing the same things while controlling as many variables as possible.
>> Running stuff on other peoples' servers, with no reliable knowledge of the hardware or possibly even the datasets, seems of no value in terms of relative performance.
>> So why are you asking for a SPARQL endpoint?
>> Best
>> Hugh
> 
> Hi Hugh,
> 
> This is about proving or disproving a claim along the following lines:
> 
> 1. Apples vs Apples -- are we comparing SPARQL Protocol endpoints or Web
> Pages pegged to specific datasets running canned queries?
> 
> 2. Conceptual understanding -- the concepts behind our "Anytime Query"
> feature are only demonstrable using a live endpoint, in this context
> i.e., the revealing claim about complete or incomplete solutions
> 
> As I think you know, I am not going to accept questionable claims made
> in public forums about our products.
> 
> If I made these audacious claims be rest assured I would have a live
> instance for objective verification. I wouldn't be directing folks to a
> paper.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kingsley
>> 
>>> On 8 Sep 2018, at 19:31, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 9/8/18 4:23 AM, Pascal Molli wrote:
>>>> Dear Kingsley,
>>>> 
>>>> We detail how, and in which context, we achieved the SaGe result in:
>>>> 
>>>> Thomas Minier, Hala Skaf-Molli, Pascal Molli. SaGe: Preemptive Query Execution for
>>>> High Data Availability on the Web. 2018. 〈hal-01806486〉
>>> Hi Pascal,
>>> 
>>> You re making claims that are best verified in a live environment i.e., one of the fundamental virtues of a SPARQL endpoint. 
>>> 
>>> We have many live endpoints:
>>> 
>>> [1] http://dbpedia.org/sparql
>>> [2] http://dbpedia-live.openlinksw.com/sparql
>>> [3] http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/sparql
>>> [4] http://lod.openlinksw.com/sparql
>>> 
>>> many others published by others. 
>>> 
>>> We even share documents regarding configuration [1].
>>> 
>>>> The result is confirmed with extensive benchmarks with Virtuoso, TPF and BrTPF.
>>>> The paper details how to re-run the experimentations.
>>> No, you are observations from a setup constructed by you. I am requesting that you demonstrate your claims via a live SPARQL endpoint, not a paper. I am requesting this for a specific reason, so can you provide this or not? 
>>> 
>>>> To improve data availability for end-users, we optimized the SaGe server for 
>>>> public LOD servers with read-only datasets. SaGe  preempts running 
>>>> queries at low cost to provide a stable, responsive and unrestricted service 
>>>> in this context.
>>>> 
>>>> The "Anytime Query" capability of a Virtuoso server is great but does not ensure complete
>>>> answers. 
>>> Again, until you provide a live SPARQL endpoint you will not actually understand why "Anytime Query" actually exists i.e., you "..is great but does not ensure complete answers" speaks for itself. 
>>> 
>>>> If you need more details about our results, we will be happy to share with you what we 
>>>> observed on Virtuoso.
>>> Can you provide a live SPARQL endpoint or not? 
>>> 
>>> Kingsley 
>>>> --
>>>> Pascal
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Kingsley Idehen	      
>>> Founder & CEO 
>>> OpenLink Software   (Home Page: 
>>> http://www.openlinksw.com
>>> )
>>> 
>>> Weblogs (Blogs):
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>>        : 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Kingsley Idehen	      
> Founder & CEO 
> OpenLink Software   (Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com)
> 
> Weblogs (Blogs):
> Legacy Blog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
> Blogspot Blog: http://kidehen.blogspot.com
> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
> 
> Profile Pages:
> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen
> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
> 
> Web Identities (WebID):
> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>        : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this

-- 
Hugh
023 8061 5652
Received on Sunday, 9 September 2018 17:07:36 UTC

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