- From: Phil Archer <phil.archer@talis.com>
- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 11:04:58 +0000
- To: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
- CC: nathan@webr3.org, Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>, Vasiliy Faronov <vfaronov@gmail.com>, Toby Inkster <tai@g5n.co.uk>, Peter DeVries <pete.devries@gmail.com>, public-lod@w3.org
Martin seems to be fighting a lone battle, but fwiw I'll add my +1 to his comments. I do take the point that, in context, it's really nice if rdfs:seeAlso gives a URI that provides more data in RDF and many applications will make that assumption. But to /rely/ on that every time seems at odds with the, AIUI fundamental notion, that a URI is an identifier and no more. I'd say that if you see an rdfs:seeAlso property, sure, send an HTTP request, but do it with a suitable accept header. If you get a 200, great, add the data, but be ready to deal with a 406 (I've got it but not in the format you have specified in your request). Describing a URI with further triples is good, nothing wrong with that, but to use that to decide whether or not to dereference an rdfs:seeAlso URI means looking for a description of the linked resource and then acting accordingly. That sounds like a relatively heavy bit of processing that HTTP kind of takes care of for you. Phil. On 13/01/2011 10:10, Martin Hepp wrote: > Hi Nathan: > >> There are other ways of looking at this, remembering we're in the >> realm of machine readable information and the context of RDF. >> rdfs:seeAlso is used to indicate a resource O which may provide >> additional information about the resource S - information in this >> context being rdf, information for the machine - so we can say that >> if O points to a resource that doesn't contain any information at >> all (no rdf, or isn't the subject of any statements) then we've >> created a meaningless statement, it may as well be { S rdfs:seeAlso >> [] } >> >> One could easily suggest that it's good for RDF Schema properties to >> have some use in RDF, and thus that if rdfs:seeAlso is used in a >> statement, that it should point to some "information", some rdf for >> the machine, otherwise it's a bit of a pointless property. >> >> Given the above, we could take the meaning of the sentence "no >> constraints are placed on the format of those representations" and >> assert that this simply means that RDF/XML is not required, and that >> any RDF format can be used. > > I don't buy in to restricting the meaning of "data" in the context of > RDF to "RDF data". If the subject or object of RDF triples can be any > Web resource (information and non-information resource), then the > range of rdfs:seeAlso should also include information resources (i.e., > data) of a variety of conceptual and syntactic forms. > > And PDF, HTML without RDFa as well as images clearly qualify as data. > They are also clearly machine-accessible. If you are still not > convinced: What about CSV files or text files containing ACE > (controlled English), or OData / GData? > > By the way, the problem of having to load huge amounts of data > following rdfs:seeAlso is not limited to PDFs - even obeying Tim's > proposal means there could be huge RDF graphs linked to via > rdfs:seeAlso, and that is of course conceptually perfectly okay. > > After all, rdfs:seeAlso is not > rdfs:linkToASmallChunkOfVeryRelatedDateInRDF ;-) Data management and > data quality heuristics should not be solved at the conceptual level. > If old clients employ outdated heuristics, those clients should update > their heuristics, IMO. > > Best > Martin > > > On 12.01.2011, at 16:13, Nathan wrote: > >> Hi Martin, >> >> Martin Hepp wrote: >>> For my taste, using rdfs:seeAlso is perfectly valid (yet >>> suboptimal, because too unspecific), according to the RDFS spec: >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_seealso >>> Quote: "rdfs:seeAlso is an instance of rdf:Property that is used to >>> indicate a resource that might provide additional information >>> about the subject resource. >>> A triple of the form: >>> S rdfs:seeAlso O >>> states that the resource O may provide additional information about >>> S. It may be possible to retrieve representations of O from the >>> Web, but this is not required. When such representations may be >>> retrieved, ***no constraints are placed on the format of those >>> representations***." >> >> >> >> Generally it appears to me that rdfs:seeAlso is a property for a >> machine to follow in order to get more information, and that much of >> the usage mentioned in this thread requires a property which informs >> a human that they may want to check resource O for more information >> - essentially something similar to a hyperlink in a html document >> with no @rel value. >> >> Best, >> >> Nathan >> > > > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > Find out more about Talis at http://www.talis.com/ > shared innovation™ > > Any views or personal opinions expressed within this email may not be > those of Talis Information Ltd or its employees. The content of this > email message and any files that may be attached are confidential, and > for the usage of the intended recipient only. If you are not the > intended recipient, then please return this message to the sender and > delete it. Any use of this e-mail by an unauthorised recipient is > prohibited. > > Talis Information Ltd is a member of the Talis Group of companies and is > registered in England No 3638278 with its registered office at Knights > Court, Solihull Parkway, Birmingham Business Park, B37 7YB. > > Talis North America is Talis Inc., 11400 Branch Ct., Fredericksburg, VA > 22408, United States of America. > -- Phil Archer Talis Systems Ltd Web: http://www.talis.com Tel: +44 1473 434770 Twitter: philarcher1 LinkedIn: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/philarcher Personal: http://philarcher.org
Received on Thursday, 13 January 2011 11:05:33 UTC