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Re: FW: Failed to port datastore to RDF, will go Mongo

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 16:28:37 -0500
Message-ID: <4CED8385.60502@openlinksw.com>
To: Ben O'Steen <bosteen@gmail.com>
CC: Juan Sequeda <juanfederico@gmail.com>, William Waites <ww@styx.org>, public-lod@w3.org, Friedrich Lindenberg <friedrich@pudo.org>
On 11/24/10 3:57 PM, Ben O'Steen wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-11-24 at 14:40 -0600, Juan Sequeda wrote:
>> Ben,
>> Just like we can
>> 1) download xampp and install php, apache, mysql with one click
>> 2) open a browser, open phpmyadmin, create my db
>> 3) copy paste any snippet of code I can find on the web about
>> connecting php/java etc to a mysql database
>> 4) write code to select/insert/update my db
>> ... you are asking for these same 4 simple steps but for an RDF
>> database?
> Not me personally, but in my experience of talking to developers in the
> HE/FE sector as well as commercial devs through JISC, running Dev8D and
> so on, being able to achieve those steps in the manner you have
> suggested is crucial.
> Yes, I exaggerated about my hearing the same tale a thousand times, but
> I have heard that perception of RDF/triplestores many, many times as
> unfounded as some may argue it is.
> This will sound like heresy, but the closest parallel I've found to step
> 1) is with mulgara (excepting that a Java runtime of some sort is
> required.) Run the jar, open browser, and run through the web-based
> examples that cover input, update and query.
> Ben

You should make a basic RDBMS your yardstick e.g. FoxPRO, Access, 
Filemaker, SQL Server etc..

If you have enterprise DBMS experience then: Oracle, SQL Server, Sybase, 
Ingres, Informix, Progress (OpenEdge), Firebird (once Interbase), 
PostgreSQL, MySQL.

In all cases, this is what developers do:

1. Install DBMS
2. Load (using various data loaders and import utilities) and Create Data
3. Create Views and Queries
4. Put Forms and Reports atop Views (or Tables)
5. Enjoy power of RDBMS apps.

This is what end-users (basic or power users do):

1. Get a productivity tool of choice (Word Processor, Spreadsheet, 
Report Writer etc)
2. Connect to RDBMS via an ODBC Data Source Name (which via ODBC Driver 
Manager is bound to Drivers for each DBMS)
3. Enjoys power of RDBMS via their preferred Desktop tool.

Here is what so called Web Developers do:

1. Find an Open Source DBMS
2. Compile it
3. Work through LAMP stack to PHP, Pyton, Ruby, TCL, others
4. Ignore DBMS independent API of ODBC (available via iODBC or unixODBC 
effort) and couple HTML pages directly to DBMS
5. Ignore DBMS for user account management and stick that in HTML page 
layer too.

Irrespective of where you fit in re. the above, this is what you should 
be able to do with Relational Property Graph Databases that support 
resolvable URIs as Unique Keys:

1. Load data - there are a myriad of paths including transient and 
materialized views over ODBC or JDBC accessible RDBMS data sources, Web 
Services, many other data container formats (spreadsheets, CSV files, etc..)
2. Use HTML+RDFa (or basic HTML) pages as Forms and Report Writer tool 
re. data browsing
3. Enjoy power of Linked Data.

Note re. above:

1. No re-write rules coding
2. No 303 debates re. how to make Unique Keys resolve
3. No exposure to Name | Address disambiguation re. Unique Keys .

Mulgara already mandates Java. Java != Platform Independent either. I am 
mandating nothing bar installing a DBMS and then simply leveraging HTTP, 
EAV Data Model, and the power of a Relational Property Graph Database 
that may or may not provide output in RDF format.

>> Juan Sequeda
>> +1-575-SEQ-UEDA
>> www.juansequeda.com
>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Ben O'Steen<bosteen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>          On Wed, 2010-11-24 at 12:51 -0500, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>          >  What does MySQL 4 do with this data that can't be done with
>>          a
>>          >  moderately capable RDF quad / triplestore?
>>          >
>>          >  If I am going to run rings around this thing, I need a
>>          starting
>>          >  point :-)
>>          That's not the point that is being made. A competent
>>          developer, using
>>          all the available links and documentation, spending days
>>          researching and
>>          learning and trying to implement, is unable to make an app
>>          using a
>>          triplestore that is on a par with one they can create very
>>          quickly using
>>          a relational database.
>>          This is about the 1000th time I have heard this story, and the
>>          ability
>>          range of those saying the same thing is huge - from 9-5 devs
>>          who learn
>>          what they need to people who research and teach artificial
>>          intelligence
>>          and other cutting edge areas and who actively learn new,
>>          complex skills
>>          just because they can.
>>          The point is not whether someone who (co?)developed the
>>          virtuoso
>>          triplestore can make RDF work, it's whether someone with the
>>          time,
>>          current documentation and inclination can.
>>          Ben
>>          >
>>          >  --
>>          >
>>          >  Regards,
>>          >
>>          >  Kingsley Idehen
>>          >  President&  CEO
>>          >  OpenLink Software
>>          >  Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>          >  Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>          >  Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
>>          >
>>          >
>>          >
>>          >



Kingsley Idehen	
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
Received on Wednesday, 24 November 2010 21:29:08 UTC

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