- From: Yves Raimond <yves.raimond@gmail.com>
- Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 13:39:08 +0000
- To: Hugh Glaser <hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
- Cc: "public-lod@w3.org" <public-lod@w3.org>
Hello! On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Hugh Glaser <hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: > > My proposal: > *We should not permit any site to be a member of the Linked Data cloud if it > does not provide a simple way of finding URIs from natural language > identifiers.* > > Rationale: > One aspect of our Linking Data (not to mention our Linking Open Data) world > is that we want people to link to our data - that is, I have published some > stuff about something, with a URI, and I want people to be able to use that > URI. > > So my question to you, the publisher, is: "How easy is it for me to find the > URI your users want?" > > My experience suggests it is not always very easy. > What is required at the minimum, I suggest, is a text search, so that if I > have a (boring string version of a) name that refers in my mind to > something, I can hope to find an (exciting Linked Data) URI of that thing. > I call this a projection from the Web to the Semantic Web. > rdfs:label or equivalent usually provides the other one. > > At the risk of being seen as critical of the amazing efforts of all my > colleagues (if not also myself), this is rarely an easy thing to do. > > Some recent experiences: > OpenCalais: as in my previous message on this list, I tried hard to find a > URI for Tim, but failed. > dbtune: Saw a Twine message about dbtune, trundled over there, and tried to > find a URI for a Telemann, but failed. > dbpedia: wanted Tim again. After clicking on a few web pages, none of which > seemed to provide a search facility, I resorted to my usual method:- look it > up in wikipedia and then hack the URI and hope it works in dbpedia. > (Sorry to name specific sites, guys, but I needed a few examples. > And I am only asking for a little more, so that the fruits of your amazing > labours can be more widely appreciated!) > wordnet: [2] below > > So I have access to Linked Data sites that I know (or at least strongly > suspect) have URIs I might want, but I can't find them. > How on earth do we expect your average punter to join this world? > > What have I missed? > Searching, such as Sindice: Well yes, but should I really have to go off to > a search engine to find a dbpedia URI? And when I look up "Telemann dbtune" > I don't get any results. And I wanted the dbtune link, not some other link. > Did I miss some links on web pages? Quite probably, but the basic problem > still stands. > SPARQL: Well, yes. But we cannot seriously expect our users to formulate a > SPARQL query simply to find out the dbpedia URI for Tim. What is the regexp > I need to put in? (see below [1]) > A foaf file: Well Tim's dbpedia URI is probably in his foaf file (although > possibly there are none of Tim's URIs in his foaf file), if I can actually > find the file; but for some reason I can't seem to find Telemann's foaf > file. > > If you are still doubting me, try finding a URI for Telemann in dbpedia > without using an external link, just by following stuff from the home page. > I managed to get a Telemann by using SPARQL without a regexp (it times out > on any regexp), but unfortunately I get the asteroid. > > Again, my proposal: > *We should not permit any site to be a member of the Linked Data cloud if it > does not provide a simple way of finding URIs from natural language > identifiers.* > Otherwise we end up in a silo, and the world passes us by. > I think this is a really dangerous idea. Most "web-scale" identifiers, eg Musicbrainz GUIDs and BBC PIDs are not human readable (for a lot of reasons, and mainly because human-readable identifiers are not unique enough!!), but both provide really easy-to-use lookup service. Such lookups, for other sites, can be provided by semantic web search engines. It is exactly as in the document web: web identifiers are mostly opaque, but search engines are here to provide the help needed. So my proposal is: let's not confuse everything. Some people's job is to make datasets available out there and as linked as possible to others. Some other people make lookup services (eg Sindice), and I think this separation of concerns works quite well. Best, y > Very best > Hugh > > [And since we have to take our own medicine, I have added a "Just search" > box right at the top level of all the rkbexplorer.com domains, such as > http://wordnet.rkbexplorer.com/ ] > > > [1] > Dbtune finding of Telemann: > SELECT * WHERE {?s ?p ?name . > FILTER regex(?name, "Telemann$") } > > I tried > SELECT * WHERE {?s ?p ?name . > FILTER regex(?name, "telemann$", "i") } > first, but got no results - not sure why. > > [2] > <rant> > I cannot believe just how frustrating this stuff can be when you really try > to use it. > Because I looked at Sindice for telemann, I know that it is a word in > wordnet ( http://sindice.com/search?q=Telemann reports loads of > http://wordnet.rkbexplorer.com/ links). > Great, he thinks, I can get a wordnet link from a "proper" wordnet publisher > (ie not me). > Goes to > http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData > to find wordnet. > The link there is dead. > Strips off the last bit, to get to the home princeton wordnet page, and > clicks on the browser link I find - also dead. > Go back and look on the > http://esw.w3.org/topic/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData/DataSet > s page, and find the link to http://esw.w3.org/topic/WordNet , but that > doesn't help. > So finally, I do the obvious - google "wordnet rdf". > Of course I get lots of pages saying how available it is, and how exciting > it is that we have it, and how it was produced; and somewhere in there I > find a link: "Wordnet-RDF/RDDL Browser" at www.openhealth.org/RDDL/wnbrowse > Almost unable to contain myself with excitement, I click on the link to find > a text box, and with trembling hands I type "Telemann" and click submit. > If I show you what I got, you can come some way to imagining my devastation: > "Using org.apache.xerces.parsers.SAXParser > Exception net.sf.saxon.trans.DynamicError: org.xml.sax.SAXParseException: > White spaces are required between publicId and systemId. > org.xml.sax.SAXParseException: White spaces are required between publicId > and systemId." > > Does the emperor have any clothes at all? > </rant> > > >
Received on Saturday, 7 February 2009 13:39:49 UTC