W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-lod@w3.org > November 2008

Re: linked data hosted somewhere

From: Aldo Bucchi <aldo.bucchi@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:50:03 -0300
Message-ID: <7a4ebe1d0811261550l6a66d473o4b76e7b41d68ff65@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Hugh Glaser" <hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, "public-lod@w3.org" <public-lod@w3.org>

Hi Hugh,

I don't intend to fight at all.
And I don't speak for Kingsley, btw. My views are my own.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Hugh Glaser <hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
> Thanks, Kingsley and Aldo.
> I have to say you raise quite a lot of concerns, or at least matters of
> interest.
> I really don't think it is a big deal that I asked someone to consider
> resources when accessing my web site, and I am a bit uncomfortable that I
> then get messages effectively telling me that my software is poor and I
> should be using (buying?) something else.

Too much reading between the lines...
no commercial interests or comparisons intended, honestly.

I think your comment suggesting that he should consider resources is
totally in place but was enough of a cue to jump in and point out that
there is a simple and accessible way to get a use as you pay endpoint
( that can do some nice tricks too ). I was just going over the AMIs
at the moment.

Just look at the tone of the question. Mr Ravinder appeared very
motivated to me, I can imagine him coding a couple of nested loops

Other than that, I think the comment was totally in place ( there is
also the free version too BTW ).

> On 26/11/2008 02:12, "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>> Hugh Glaser wrote:
>>> I thought that might be the answer.
>>> So what is the ontology of the error, so that my SW application can deal with
>>> it appropriately?
>>> If it ain¹t RDF it ain¹t sensible in the Semantic Web.
>>> ;-|
>>> And the ³entitlement² to spend lots of money by accident; a bit worrying,
>>> although I assume there are services that allow me to find out at least
>>> estimates of the cost.
>> If you are querying via iSQL or the Virtuoso Conductor you wont be
>> moving lots of data between your desktop and EC2. If you do large
>> constructs over the sparql protocol or anything else that produces large
>> HTTP workloads between EC2 and your location, then you will incur the
>> costs (btw - Amazon are quite aggressive re. the costs, so you really
>> have to be serving many client i.e., offering a service for costs being
>> a major concern).
> Er, yes, that was the question we were discussing.
> Large constructs over the sparql prototcol.
> With respect to costs, I never mentioned Amazon, so I am not sure why that
> is the benchmark for comparison.
> But I don't want to have a go at the Openlink software (I often recommend it
> to people); I was just asking about limitations.
> All software has limitations.
>> Anyway, Virtuoso let's you control lots of things, including shutting
>> down the sparql endpoint. In addition, you will soon be able to offer
>> OAuth access to sparql endpoint etc..
> Yes, and I didn't really want to have the overhead of interacting with
> Ravinder to explain why I had shut down his access to the SPARQL endpoint.
>>> I suspect that your comment about a bill is a bit of a joke, in that normal
>>> queries do not require money?
>>> But it does raise an interesting LOD question.
>>> Ravinder asked for LOD sets; if I have to pay for the query service, is it
>>> LOD?
>> You pay for traffic that goes in and out of your data space.
>> (effective November 26, 2008)
>> Fixed Costs ($)
> <snip amazon costs/>
>> Here is a purchase link that also exposes the items above.
>> https://aws-portal.amazon.com/gp/aws/user/subscription/index.html?ie=UTF8&offe
>> ringCode=6CB89F71
>> Of course, you can always use the Open Source Edition as is and
>> reconstruct DBpedia from scratch, the cost-benefit analysis factors come
>> down to:
>> 1. Construction and Commissioning time (1 - 1.5 hrs vs 16 - 22 hrs)
>> 2. On / Off edition variant of live DBpedia instance that's fully tuned
>> and in sync with the master
>>> Getting back to dealing with awkward queries.
>>> Detecting what are effectively DoS attacks is not always the easiest thing to
>>> do.
>>> Has Bezzo really solved it for a SPARQL endpoint while providing a useful
>>> service to users with a wide variety of requirements?
>> I believe so based on what we can do with Virtuoso on EC2.  One major
>> example is the backup feature where we can sync from a Virtuoso instance
>> into S3 buckets. Then perform a restore from those buckets (what we do
>> re. DBpedia). In our case we offer HTTP/WebDAV or the S3 protocol for
>> bucket access.
> I don't think this contributes to helping to service complex SPARQL queries,
> or have I missed somthing?
>>> In fact, people don¹t usually offer open SQL access to Open Databases for
>>> exactly this reason.
>>> I like to think the day will come when the Semantic Web is so widely used
>>> that we will have the same problem with SPARQL endpoints.
>> The Linked Data Web is going to take us way beyond anything SQL could
>> even fantasize about (imho). And one such fantasy is going to be
>> accessible sparql endpoints without bringing the house down :-)
> Now there I agree.
> The power of LD/SW or whatever you call it will indeed take us a long way
> further.
> And I agree on the fantasy, which is actually what I was saying all along.
> It is a fantasy to suggest that "you can do all the wrong you want".

Now, just to be clear.

If I told you that you had access to the WORLD SQL database.
Would you run a SELECT * FROM PERSON on it?

Why take it to an extreme, I was just suggesting that you "can" get
your own comfy apartment to do whatever you want if you feel like it.
I didn't suggest that you "should" throw a party and invite three
elephants and Ozzie.
However, if you did, it's up to you to clean the mess ( or live with
the frustration of Ozzie not showing up ).

As people start experimenting though, it will be ultimately beneficial
to allow them to instantiate their own, independent agents and mirrors
of the datasets ( with all due conditions ).
And this is the way to start methinks, through grassroots comments.

> But I think it is sensible to take the question to a new thread...

I'm sorry to contribute my grain of sand to the noise on this list.
Out ;)

> Best
> Hugh
>> Kingsley


Aldo Bucchi
Office: +56 2 795 4532
Mobile:+56 9 7623 8653

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Received on Wednesday, 26 November 2008 23:50:48 UTC

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