- From: Manue <manue@figoblog.org>
- Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 09:42:28 +0100
- To: "ZENG, MARCIA" <mzeng@kent.edu>
- Cc: Mark van Assem <mark@cs.vu.nl>, Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>, Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>, "Haffner, Alexander" <A.Haffner@d-nb.de>, public-lld <public-lld@w3.org>
Coming back on this, I don't like "metadata elements set", for the reasons mentionned earlier in this thread : 'elements' have another meaning in XML. I'm not sure that 'elements set' is that clear either, even if it's been used by DC. Plus, I like the idea of "vocabulary" because it emphasizes the possibility of a "pick-and-choose" approach. Why not "metadata vocabularies" ? Emmanuelle PS: I'm not arguing on "value vocabularies", which seems clear enough. On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 5:23 PM, ZENG, MARCIA <mzeng@kent.edu> wrote: > +1 Mark. > “Value vocabularies” is understandable, although it may limit to those only > to be used as ‘values’. (There are other functions a KOS can perform). > ‘Properties’ has different meanings in different communities. It could be > confusing when it is not used with context. It may also mislead when mapping > different types of resources. ‘Metadata element set’ is a term widely > accepted and has clear meaning. What people want to use the elements for > depend on the implementations. > Marcia > > On 11/2/10 12:08 PM, "Mark van Assem" <mark@cs.vu.nl> wrote: > > > > So we should choose two different terms and in our report explain those > terms in relation to terms that may be more familiar to specific parts > of our audience. > > "Value vocabularies" seems to be working for most. > > A reason not to choose "properties" as you suggest is that those are RDF > centric terms, so none of our audience will get it immediately, while > choosing e.g. metadata element set has the advantage that some in the > audience will immediately get it. > > Mark > > On 02/11/2010 16:49, Karen Coyle wrote: >> The term "vocabularies" gets used for a lot of different things in >> semantic web discussions. However, as this thread shows, there isn't an >> obvious set of clear terms to use in its place. >> >> Depending on who you are talking to, the things that DCMI calls "value >> vocabularies" are "controlled lists of terms" or "authority lists" or >> "pick lists." Although 'value vocabulary' is a clear distinction to >> adherents of DCAM, I have not heard that phrase used by any other >> communities. When I talk to librarians, I often use the phrase >> "controlled list" in my explanation. It would be good to get the 'value >> vocabulary' concept disseminated broadly. >> >> The analogy to properties is "data elements" in the traditional IT >> world. In fact, the MARC documentation refers to the fields and >> subfields as data elements. For that reason, "metadata element" and >> "metadata element set" seem to resonate with folks who are already >> somewhat familiar with a data processing model. However, I worry that >> people will assume that a property is the same as a data element. >> >> The terms "property," "value" and "statement" have no meaning for folks >> in the library world. These are new concepts, and should be introduced >> as representing a new way of creating and using metadata. I think it is >> legitimate to say that MARC does not have properties (in the semweb >> sense), and there are no statements in a MARC record as it is coded >> today. The advantage here is that librarians can move to new concepts >> and a new vocabulary about those concepts, which I think will help keep >> them from dragging the old ideas along with them into the semantic web.. >> >> Therefore (after all of that), I would vote for using 'value >> vocabularies' and 'properties' ('set of properties' for something like >> foaf or dcterms?), but explain them in terms of controlled lists and >> data elements, emphasizing the differences. >> >> Yep, easier said than done. >> >> kc >> >> Quoting Mark van Assem <mark@cs.vu.nl>: >> >>> >>>> Generally the whole situation is a mess, and can only be understood >>>> sociologically / historically. Asking whether eg. 'schemas' and >>>> 'ontologies' are the same or different doesn't get us very far.. Asking >>>> about which communities used which terms maybe gets us a bit >>>> further... >>> >>> Ok, If the question is about communities we're communicating with, then >>> >>> "element set" would probably work here >>> >>> (come to think of it, I used "metadata element set" to refer to DC etc. >>> in my thesis, and later link that to the term "schemas" to denote how >>> DC looks like in RDF, which then become "metadata element schemas" >>> >>> >>> I also like "value vocabulary" because it sort of indicates that they >>> go into the object part ("value") of a triple. >>> >>>> I quite like 'vocabulary' as it covers schema, ontology, metadata set, >>>> and also SKOS/thesaurus stuff too. >>> >>> Yes, but we need separate terms for the things "vocabulary" may >>> encompass. In other words it's either too broad or means different >>> things to different people. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> -- >>> Mark van Assem - Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam >>> http://www.cs.vu.nl/~mark >> >> >> > > -- > Mark van Assem - Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam > http://www.cs.vu.nl/~mark > > >
Received on Wednesday, 10 November 2010 08:43:02 UTC