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Re: Changes in Community Group Drafts Targeted for 1.1 · json-ld/json-ld.org Wiki

From: Gregg Kellogg <gregg@greggkellogg.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 13:00:49 -0800
Message-Id: <1383F21D-CB41-46C4-8A10-93F45FCD872F@greggkellogg.net>
Cc: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, Linked JSON <public-linked-json@w3.org>
To: Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>
> On Jan 29, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> It would be great to move that discussion to an issue on the json-ld github repository, instead of in a pull request on a particular implementation where it will disappear once the PR is accepted or rejected :)

Agreed, there is already issue #488 [1] to track this; let’s move discussion there.

Gregg

[1] https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/issues/488 <https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/issues/488>

> Rob
> 
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 11:06 AM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
> On 1/29/18 12:29 PM, Gregg Kellogg wrote:
>> Hi Kingsley, did you try it on the new development playground: [1]. You should also be able to run it on my own distiller: [2].
>> 
>> The reason the “databaseId” is not transformed is that JSON-LD separates the concept of “document base” and “vocabulary base”. JSON Keys are interpreted as IRIs relative to the vocabulary base, which is not established in the context, so it is dropped. Try adding "@vocab": "http://example <http://example/>/“ to the context:
>> 
>> {"@context":
>>   {
>>      "schema": "http://schema.org/ <http://schema.org/>",
>>     "@base": "#",
>>     "@vocab": "http://example/ <http://example/>"
>>   },
>>     "@id": "#BrewEats",
>>     "@type": "schema:Restaurant",
>>     "schema:name": "Brew Eats",
>>     "databaseId": "23987520"
>> }
>> 
>> There is (currently) now way to say that the vocabulary base is the same as the document base, which seems to be what you’re after. Given a suitable syntax, this is something that could be considered for the 1.1 work. Note, this is pretty much the same as Issue #488 [3], addressed in PR #573 [4].
>> 
>> Note that these are all serialization issues; in the case of Turtle and other serializations, relative IRIs are always relative to the document base (although RDFa does have an @vocab attribute), but this was not practical in the design of JSON-LD (at least, as considered in the 1.0 timeframe). As you know, the RDF datamodel does not support relative IRIs, that is an interpretation of concrete serializations.
>> 
>> Gregg Kellogg
>> gregg@greggkellogg.net <mailto:gregg@greggkellogg.net>
>> 
>> [1] https://json-ld.org/playground-dev/ <https://json-ld.org/playground-dev/>
>> [2] http://rdf.greggkellogg.net/distiller?command=expand&format=jsonld&output_format=jsonld <http://rdf.greggkellogg.net/distiller?command=expand&format=jsonld&output_format=jsonld>
>> [3] https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/issues/488 <https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/issues/488>
>> [4] https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/pull/573 <https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/pull/573>
> Gregg,
> 
> As per our evolving thread on github [1], and as you have correctly discerned, I want to use relative IRIs (specifically, HTTP URIs) to denote predicates in my RDF sentences/statements. Doing that is perfectly legal RDF, and mandatory for any notation (or concrete syntax) that's associated with RDF usage in line with Linked Data principles. 
> 
> "A concrete RDF syntax <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-concrete-rdf-syntax> may offer many different ways to encode the same RDF graph <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-rdf-graph> or RDF dataset <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-rdf-dataset>, for example through the use of namespace prefixes <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-namespace-prefix>, relative IRIs, blank node identifiers <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-blank-node-identifier>, and different ordering of statements. While these aspects can have great effect on the convenience of working with the RDF document <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-rdf-document>, they are not significant for its meaning." -- https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#fromThisDocument <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#fromThisDocument>. 
> 
> Thus, based on the above, I can only conclude that at the current time JSON-LD is a concrete RDF syntax that doesn't support denotation of RDF sentence/predicates using relative IRIs i.e., all predicates MUST be denoted using absolute IRIs.
> 
> 
> Links:
> 
> [1] https://github.com/digitalbazaar/jsonld.js/pull/225#issuecomment-361336284 <https://github.com/digitalbazaar/jsonld.js/pull/225#issuecomment-361336284> -- Issues Thread for this matter
> 
> [2] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Semantic-Web/answer/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen <https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Semantic-Web/answer/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen> -- kind of example that I can't currently replicate using JSON-LD. 
> 
> Kingsley
> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2018, at 6:34 PM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 1/26/18 7:50 PM, Gregg Kellogg wrote:
>>>> I summarized information from the TPAC presentation into a wiki page maintained on the json-ld.org <http://json-ld.org/> repo [1].
>>>> 
>>>> Gregg Kellogg
>>>> gregg@greggkellogg.net <mailto:gregg@greggkellogg.net>
>>>> 
>>>> [1] https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/wiki/Changes-in-Community-Group-Drafts-Targeted-for-1.1 <https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/wiki/Changes-in-Community-Group-Drafts-Targeted-for-1.1>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> Hi Gregg,
>>> 
>>> I still can't get the following to parse correctly via JSON-LD playground or anywhere else.  {
>>> 
>>>   "@context":
>>>   {
>>>      "schema": "http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
>>>     "@base": "#"  
>>>   },
>>>     "@id": "#BrewEats",
>>>     "@type": "schema:Restaurant",
>>>     "schema:name": "Brew Eats",
>>>     "databaseId": "23987520"
>>> }
>>> 
>>> What is the JSON-LD equivalent for the following RDF-Turtle statement collection, 
>>> Where the rendered output does not exclude <#databaseId> key and "23987520" value?
>>>  
>>> 
>>> @prefix schema: <http://schema.org/> <http://schema.org/>. 
>>> 
>>> <#BrewEats> 
>>> a schema:Restaurant;
>>> schema:name "Brew Eats";
>>> <#databaseId> "23987520". 
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Kingsley Idehen	      
>>> Founder & CEO 
>>> OpenLink Software   (Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com/>)
>>> 
>>> Weblogs (Blogs):
>>> Legacy Blog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/ <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen/>
>>> Blogspot Blog: http://kidehen.blogspot.com <http://kidehen.blogspot.com/>
>>> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen <https://medium.com/@kidehen>
>>> 
>>> Profile Pages:
>>> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/ <https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/>
>>> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen <https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen>
>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen <https://twitter.com/kidehen>
>>> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about <https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about>
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen>
>>> 
>>> Web Identities (WebID):
>>> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i <http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i>
>>>         : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this <http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this>
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Kingsley Idehen	      
> Founder & CEO 
> OpenLink Software   (Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com/>)
> 
> Weblogs (Blogs):
> Legacy Blog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/ <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/>
> Blogspot Blog: http://kidehen.blogspot.com <http://kidehen.blogspot.com/>
> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen <https://medium.com/@kidehen>
> 
> Profile Pages:
> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/ <https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/>
> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen <https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen>
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen <https://twitter.com/kidehen>
> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about <https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen>
> 
> Web Identities (WebID):
> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i <http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i>
>         : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this <http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rob Sanderson
> Semantic Architect
> The Getty Trust
> Los Angeles, CA 90049


Received on Monday, 29 January 2018 21:01:18 UTC

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