Re: LD 5th Element ?

On 5/21/13 12:23 PM, Roger Menday wrote:
>
> hello Kingsley,
>
>>>> Lookup should have been Interact with in the design issues guide. 
>>>> Note, TimBL's meme was aimed at being as "deceptively simple" and 
>>>> abstract as possible. If it had "interacts" instead of "lookup" it 
>>>> would have been much harder to bootstrap Linked Data.
>>>
>>> For me rules 1-4, describe why GETable LD is so great, in a simple 
>>> and clear way.
>>>
>>> e.g. "look up" doesn't need clarification.
>>
>> Yes, because anything other than "look up" would have introduced 
>> comprehension and rollout inertia re., the LOD cloud effort that 
>> arose around TimBL's Linked Data meme.
>>
>>>
>>> Rules 1-4 describe how to go on a read-only 'journey' through the 
>>> data. Then the "useful information" (including links) of rules 3 and 
>>> 4, may be used to guide the 'changing' part (the 5th element).
>>>
>>> Therefore, I don't think it is particularly helpful to conflate the 
>>> all the interaction possibilities into rules 1-4. So I'm still 
>>> partial to viewing this as incremental.
>>
>> The goal wasn't to conflate. The goal was to clarify that Web has 
>> always been about URIs driving interactions. That a "look up" is but 
>> one kind of interaction that a URI facilitates (so called 
>> "affordance") re., Web architecture.
>
> 3. "When someone looks up a URI, provide useful information, using the 
> standards (RDF*, SPARQL)"
>
> This sentence is strongly targeting the 'look up' case. If you replace 
> "look up" in the sentance above with 'interact with', it misses a lot 
> of the essence of that interaction.

Not disputing that. Basically, that meme is all about the Read-Only 
dimension.

>
>> You could also look at Linked Data as having Read-Only and Read-Write 
>> dimensions. The Read-Only dimension is about "look ups" (the 
>> "resolves to" aspect) while Read-Write dimension is about the 
>> "responds to" aspect.
>>
>> The RWW and LDP groups are (IMO) about the Read-Write aspect hence 
>> the issue I have with the notion of a 5th element.
>>
>>> Roger
>>>
>>> p.s. For the reasons related to above, I am not quite sure if I am 
>>> happy with describing this as CRUD. I think there is something more 
>>> than CRUD in what LDP is building.
>>
>> Ultimately, it's all about URIs and the interactions that they 
>> facilitate.
>
> So, I prefer "interactions they facilitate" !!

Yes, but, within interactions we have two distinct types of interactions:

1. Read-Only
2. Read-Write
3. Other.

In all cases, interactions are facilitated by URIs that provide dual 
functionality:

1. entity denotation
2. data object (resource) identification.

Links:

1. http://bit.ly/166qtRh -- Linked Data hash URIs
2. http://bit.ly/YxW21k -- Linked Data hashless URIs.

So we end up with names and address indirection based interactions with 
data objects (resources) via URIs, irrespective.

I believe it's much clearer to look at different kinds of Linked Data 
interactions, across dimensions (or aspects), rather than adding a 5th 
element to something most folks still don't quite understand :-)

Kingsley
>
> Roger
>
>
>>
>> Kingsley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You have two types of interactions:
>>>>
>>>> 1. resolve to
>>>> 2. reacts to or responds to
>>>>
>>>> Linked Data is really about CRUD operations conducted via URIs.
>>>>
>>>> Kingsley
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>> Roger
>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards, John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Voice US 845-435-9470 BluePages 
>>>>>> <http://w3.ibm.com/jct03019wt/bluepages/simpleSearch.wss?searchBy=Internet+address&location=All+locations&searchFor=johnarwe> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tivoli OSLC Lead - Show me the Scenario
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Roger Menday <roger.menday@uk.fujitsu.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:roger.menday@uk.fujitsu.com>>
>>>>>> To: Linked Data Platform Working Group <public-ldp-wg@w3.org 
>>>>>> <mailto:public-ldp-wg@w3.org>>,
>>>>>> Date: 05/21/2013 06:06 AM
>>>>>> Subject: LD 5th Element ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As hinted a few times at the F2F, one might consider that LDP 
>>>>>> adds a fifth element to the four rules of Linked Data [1]. Just 
>>>>>> as an exercise, I had a go at expressing that:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5. (optional) Use HTTP for deleting things, creating new things 
>>>>>> and editing information about things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would've liked to have said something about pagination as well, 
>>>>>> but, couldn't quite fit it in neatly. How would others phrase it 
>>>>>> I wonder ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] _http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html_
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Kingsley Idehen	
>>>> Founder & CEO
>>>> OpenLink Software
>>>> Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>> Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>>>> Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>>>> LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen	
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>> Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>> LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen