Re: ldp-ISSUE-62 (siblings): Creating Sibling Containers [Linked Data Platform core]

Hi Roger,

In Issue-51, I believe you referred to those containers as "child 
containers". It took us quite a bit of discussion to understand what you 
were talking about but now that we have reached that point I'd rather we 
stick to this.

You're talking about adding a container for 'options' to Networth but you 
could simply ask how one would create assetContainer and 
liabilityContainer in the first place.

So, I think the question you're really asking is how do I create a child 
container, isn't it?

Regards.
--
Arnaud  Le Hors - Software Standards Architect - IBM Software Group




From:   Roger Menday <roger.menday@uk.fujitsu.com>
To:     John Arwe/Poughkeepsie/IBM@IBMUS, 
Cc:     Linked Data Platform Working Group <public-ldp-wg@w3.org>
Date:   04/30/2013 02:06 PM
Subject:        Re: ldp-ISSUE-62 (siblings): Creating Sibling Containers 
[Linked Data  Platform core]




hi John, 

> What happens if I want to record some new/other information about a 
Networth resource ? Then I need a way to create a new container. 

I think that's a non sequitir.  The reason you'd need a new container is 
if you needed a new HTTP interaction point with LDPC semantics. 


But, that is what I need [*] - a new HTTP interaction point with LDPC 
semantics !!
- e.g. a container called 'options' (or some other financial term), which 
has some stated membershipSubject, and which operates like the asset or 
liability ones. 


 I can record info about a NetWorth member anywhere (at any URL) using 
RDF.... including on a different server. 


> Sibling containers share a common membershipSubject. For example, the 
Asset and Liability containers are siblings 'inside' a Networth resource. 

LDP does not constrain the storage ("inside").  It gives you no guarantee 
that the state of /nw1 includes the triples in the container resources; 
nor does it impede doing so.  It's logical/common sense enough to do so, 
just not guaranteed by the spec


Wrt "inside": 
Every LDPR has a representation with a number of triples.
An LDPC is a subset of those triples - same-subject, same-predicate. 
That's what I mean by 'inside' - maybe I should've used 'subset'. 

Anyway, I understand that by de-referencing /nw1, you are *not* guaranteed 
to see the triples about the container resources. Infact this was one of 
motivators for raising issue-51. If we resolve issue-51 by specifying that 
there should be links from a resource to its containers, then it this lack 
of guarantee doesn't matter. 



This appears to devolve back to "how do I create containers".  We've had 
conversations about that before, and had some level of consensus IIRC that 
the spec would remain silent and the primer/deployment document might well 
show how the "spec as it is" could be used by implementations to create 
containers.

I've been implementing LDP recently, and this is definitely an issue. 

*IF* we choose to resolve this issue with PUTting a new LDPC resource, 
then I can see that the resolution would be something for the deployment 
guide. 

But, this sibling case isn't the same as the 
container-creating-another-container case.

thanks, 
Roger 


[*] I -really- think that in most cases the server will decide what I 
need, and offer it to me. And as a dumb client, I should just follow that 
lead. 

Best Regards, John

Voice US 845-435-9470  BluePages 
Tivoli OSLC Lead - Show me the Scenario 




From:        "Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Issue Tracker" <
sysbot+tracker@w3.org> 
To:        public-ldp-wg@w3.org, 
Date:        04/29/2013 11:32 AM 
Subject:        ldp-ISSUE-62 (siblings): Creating Sibling Containers 
[Linked Data Platform core] 



ldp-ISSUE-62 (siblings): Creating Sibling Containers [Linked Data Platform 
core]

http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/62

Raised by: Roger Menday
On product: Linked Data Platform core


Sibling containers share a common membershipSubject. For example, the 
Asset and Liability containers are siblings 'inside' a Networth resource. 

What happens if I want to record some new/other information about a 
Networth resource ? Then I need a way to create a new container. 

A simple solution might be to PUT a new sibling Container to some explicit 
address. Alternatively, as the LDPC siblings are form a container, POSTing 
to a networth could also do this sibling creation. This has the 
implication that every LDPR is an LDPC ...

see also 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0068.html for 
another example.