- From: Andy Seaborne <andy.seaborne@epimorphics.com>
- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 14:27:05 +0100
- To: public-ldp-wg@w3.org
On 28/08/12 12:46, Kingsley Idehen wrote: > On 8/28/12 7:31 AM, Olivier Berger wrote: >> Hi. >> >> David Booth <david@dbooth.org> writes: >> >>> FWIW, if the LD profile is going to recommend one RDF serialization as >>> the default for RDF, I would argue strongly that it should be Turtle >>> instead of RDF/XML, because: >>> >>> (a) Turtle is far more human friendly to read; >>> (b) RDF/XML is not XML Schema friendly; >>> (c) RDF/XML has XML-based restrictions (such as prohibiting local >>> names >>> that start with a digit) that make certain RDF difficult to represent; >>> (d) RDF/XML has had a history of misleading developers who are >>> familiar >>> with XML (but not RDF) into thinking that RDF is just a kind of XML. >>> >> Let me add my 2 cents : >> >> - IMHO, Turtle (or another human readable format) should be used for >> writing the specifications (i.e. illustrating the /model/ part if >> there's some separation between model and implementations), and >> providing examples, in order to be as much appealing to non-RDF >> experts as possible. >> >> - I'm not sure Turtle support should be a MUST when RDF/XML would only >> have a lower requirement for compliance to the specs of any LDP >> service. At the moment, but this may change, I'm not sure the level of >> support of Turtle in open source libraries in different languages is >> as good as RDF/XML's. For instance, in PHP, if we want to offer a >> migration path for lots of REST PHP apps that may become LDP aware >> some day. The good points of RDF/XML is that you may do some parsing >> with an XML (DOM) parser with some level of success on the client side >> even though you may miss some RDF constructs (like reification, etc.), >> whereas with Turtle, one may be just limited by no supporting library >> available on the hosting server side. If you mean PHP developer working directly on the XML, then, in practice, that isnt going to work out. An app will need a library to do the XML->RDF step. The grammar [1] over the infoset is not trivial although there is a RelaxNG (informal) grammar. Just rdf:ID vs rdf:about is confusing enough. The variability of the syntax makes it more than just a case of missing a few features. Can we turn this into a concrete question? Which libraries don't support Turtle? There are several for PHP that do (RAP, ARC2, and Redland with PHP bindings). Andy (And a system must have an N-triples parser to pass the RDF-2004 test suite ... because the results are recorded in N-triples) [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#section-Infoset-Grammar >> >> Of course, depending on the ETA of LDP's deliverables, the last remark >> may be obsoleted as Turtle gains wider support. >> >> I'd like to make sure we think about non-Java adopters, for instance, >> and consider the level of support of the different RDF serializations in >> various languages before me make definitive choices. >> >> Just my 2 cents, >> >> Best regards. > To make anything bootstrap to point of critical mass on the Web you need > the following critical characteristics associated with Web documents: > > 1. cut and paste pattern friendliness -- when editing content > 2. human readability -- when reading content > 3. save to storage (disk, folder etc..) -- when saving new or updated > content. > > In addition to the above, an document author shouldn't be impeded or > distracted by: > > 1. denotation mechanism choices -- for documents of document subjects > and topics > 2. domain name ownership and DNS server admin privileges > 3. name/address disambiguation matters > 4. web server ownership and admin privileges -- for re-write rules, > indirection, and content negotiation in general. > > A user should craft a document, save it, then share its hyperlink with > the world or a group. > > With the above in mind, you ultimately end up with Turtle, its the > format that passes all the tests above. All of the other formats are > really aimed as specific profiles which I break down as follows: > > 1. Turtle -- everyone +1 Including any web developer who needs to work without a library of some sort. > 2. HTML5+MicroData -- HTML application developers > > 3. (X)HTML+RDFa -- Well-Formed HTML application developers with an > (X)HTML background and preference > > 4. JSON-LD -- Javascript developers that prefer JSON based data > representation over XML based data representation > > 5. RDF/XML -- early community of developers and academics associated > with the Semantic Web Project. There were, I believe (I wasn't there), 2 reasons for RDF/XML 1/ internationalization and charsets. 2/ Integration into large XML documents. Neither of these apply nowadays. > There is ample history in place re. the effects of formats on both > Linked Data and the broader Semantic Web vision. There are no reasons > for repeating disastrous missteps from the past. None whatsoever. > > The Web is not about programmers, its for everyone. That means a > plethora of user profiles. > > Links: > > 1. http://bit.ly/RJzd9S -- Why Turtle Matters . >
Received on Tuesday, 28 August 2012 13:27:40 UTC