[minutes] 2020-12-15 IDCG meeting

Hi all,

The minutes of the Inclusion and Diversity CG meeting held yesterday are available:
  https://www.w3.org/2020/12/15-idcg-minutes.html

Reminder:
Please join the Positive Work Environment CG with which this group will merge.
https://www.w3.org/community/pwe/

Text version of the minutes:
============================

                             – DRAFT –
                     IDCG meeting 15 December 2020

   [2]IRC log.
      [2] https://www.w3.org/2020/12/15-idcg-irc

Attendees
   Present
          ada, Amy_Guy, Coralie, Dan, Estella, Judy, Lola_Odela,
          Léonie, Nishad_Thalhath, rhiaro, Te_Leta, Tobie, tzviya,
          wendyreid
   Regrets
          wseltzer
   Chair
          Léonie Watson
   Scribe
          rhiaro

Contents
    1. [3]Merging with PWE CG
    2. [4]Actions progress

Meeting minutes

   <koalie> [5]Previous (2020-12-01)

      [5] https://www.w3.org/2020/12/01-idcg-minutes.html

  Merging with PWE CG

   tink: we discussed the possibility of merging the two CGs,
   there's a lot of activity in both groups but as coralie and I
   need tos tep down as chairs, we decided joining forces would
   make the most sense
   … the PWE met and discussed this last week and cameto the
   conclusioin that this was a good way forward
   … all our activities on inclusion and diversity are going to
   continue, but within the PWE CG
   … apologies for some admin overhead
   … if you're not already members of PWE please go and join up

   <koalie> [6]https://www.w3.org/community/pwe/

      [6] https://www.w3.org/community/pwe/

   tink: so we can continue working on those activities

   tobie: my concern is that it doesn't give the appearance from
   the outside, no longer have an IDCG

   tzviya: we're not going to close the IDCG, we'll leave it open
   for several months, and on the email list and github everything
   will be open
   … liz and I are going to work on writing a draft charter that
   we'll share with the group in the first meeting we'll have as a
   joint group in january
   … and we'll talk about the factw e're not closing down divisity
   and inclusion efforts
   … we want to make sure it does not look like we're closing down
   these efforts
   … we had discussion about which name to choose
   … some of the feedback we got, while for some people it's
   attractive to have a name like inclusion and diversity, for
   some people it's not
   … in particular people of colour are asked to step up to
   represent the inclusion and diversity efforts and there's a lot
   of fatigue that comes with that
   … and there might be work happening in this group that's
   attractive, the fact it's called the diversity group might be
   unattractive
   … we'll be continuing work on the ombudsperson program, which
   people might have experience with, it's not traditionally
   something done in a diveristy and inclusion group
   … we want to welcome all voices but not have the fatigue of
   being forced to represent a group
   … but we're going to do everything we can to make sure it
   doesn't look like w3c is closing down inclusion and diversity
   efforts

   tink: something to be said for the immediate practicality of
   this plan - coralie and I will not be able to chair after the
   end of this year
   … Liz has kindly agreed to team up with tzviya to cochair the
   new CG as it goes forward

   <koalie> liz++

   tink: one step at a time, we needed to find a solution that
   will enable the activities of both groups to continue

   <koalie> tzviya++

   tink: as tzviya said we took up dan's suggestion we took up to
   charter. Neither CG has a charter
   … writing a more sensible charter seems like a good thing to do
   … trying to get done before christmas is just impossible, so
   thinking about that in the new year
   … and even renaming the CG
   … that encompasses what it wants to achieve butw ithout the
   concerns tzviya raised
   … that's theshort term plan. Everything after that, there's
   clearly lots more work to do

   <koalie> [Judy arrives]

  Actions progress

   torgo: we talked about the mentoring office hours thing, I saw
   a test page go up, but I haven't see .. when is that due to
   launch and what is the messaging around that?
   … I saw my name on it, I'm happy to be part of it, but what is
   the schedule and who is on tap to do that?

   tink: we don't have an immediate scehdule, I was on the hook
   but I haven't had time to think about messaging or anythign
   beyond that
   … we've collected the volunteers and the information is current
   but I haven't had time or energy to take it further
   … if someone can help with that that would be wonderful
   … it's pretty close to being ready

   tzviya: I haven't updated this in github but I was talkign to
   sheila (?) from bocoup about how to better manage the reading
   list
   … she had some excellent suggestions,
   … suggested we have a vetting committee of three people, and I
   wanted to put out a call for volunteers to help me vet the
   reading list
   … we figure out a way to do this in github
   … so if someone submits something we are responsible for
   reading through the material and making sure it's worthwhile
   … and will also help with some organisation
   … and I have some items I'dl ike to add to the reading list,
   but need some help vetting
   … if anyone is interested in volunteering?

   <koalie> [7]https://www.w3.org/community/idcg/
   inclusion-and-diversity-office-hours/ (see password in zoom
   chat)

      [7] https://www.w3.org/community/idcg/inclusion-and-diversity-office-hours/

   tink: anyone have time to put into that?
   … maybe a good activity for some of the newer joiners to the CG
   to get involved in

   lola: what is the reading list for?

   <koalie> the CG blog view should at some point be updated to
   match [8]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/blob/master/
   office-hours.html

      [8] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/blob/master/office-hours.html

   tzviya: it started off as something that those of us working on
   the code of conduct collected, and expanded into here is stuff
   you should know if you're working on inclusiveness and
   diversity
   … I wanted to add a whitepaper about dismantling racism
   … there's al ot of information about people of colour in tech,
   women in tech
   … we try to keep it to articles more than books
   … it's vetting things so people in the community can be
   informed about what our biases are and perhaps how we can do
   something about them

   lola: I'd be happy to join that

   tzviya: I'd like one more person

   tink: I'd be happy to help, though I'm not sure if I'm the
   right person to vet

   estella: I would be happy to join

   torgo: coralie posted a link about the office hours, I thought
   I saw ap age with more names on
   … so I think we have some sync issues here, my name isn't on
   that list
   … I saw a page that leonie sent me that did have my name

   <koalie> most updated: [9]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/blob/
   master/office-hours.html

      [9] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/blob/master/office-hours.html

   tink: the page I've been working on is in our repo

   koalie: we started with the wordpress list and then we created
   the github thing and we moved office hours between the github
   list which is the most updated and the staged blog page in
   github
   … at some point we'll ahve to make those match or figure out a
   way to show theo ffice hours from github
   … the blog for the idcg was staged to show the office hours as
   a page on the right hand side of the homepage

   tink: it sounds like we've got a blog post that needs to be
   complete

   koalie: it's not a blog post it's a page
   … I shared the password in the zoom chat
   … there is the content that we had developed at the time which
   is outdated now

   tink: I'll take a look after the call

   torgo: I'm happy to spot check the page but I don't control the
   wordpress
   … I think it'd be a good thing to publish and talk about before
   the holidays

   wendyreid: I want to give an update on the issue about the
   statement
   … I said this in an email, I haven't posted it yet, I did draft
   after the meeting with Kim I drafted a new version of the
   statement
   … I was frustrated it didnt' do the job it was supposed to do
   and I wanted to re-center the appropriate meaning
   … I will post it in the issue once I add some changes
   … I would love everyone's feedback

   tink: thanks wendy, with full acknowledgement that I'm the
   worst person to have a sensible opinion on whether it hits the
   right note and intention or not, I thought it responded well to
   a lot of Kim's feedback
   … it'd be great to share it with the group
   … Actual activity, this is good!
   … Any more updates?
   … I've noticed a few more WGs seem to be sending out welcome
   emails by default now as opposed to the standard sysbot
   messages

   koalie: carin from the project team, there was an aspect of
   project team work that was onboarding, as part of this she
   created webhooks in github
   … chairs can go in and create a template and use something that
   looks like lisp with parantheses or curly bracets
   … automaticaly every new CG or WG or IG participant receives
   the welcome messge that the chair or co chair or team contact
   have determined and the chairs and team contacts are ccd
   … so that's very good progress for welcoming new people to any
   of our groups

   tink: that sounds good, anything more we can od to help with
   that?

   koalie: I was expecting more uptake for this, it takes very
   little time to set up and is completely automated
   … it uses the database.. when we fold the idcg within the pwe
   group whether I was going to have to change anything and carin
   said no, so long as the database is up to date
   … maybe here there are some people who are cochairs of groups
   and want to leverage this

   tink: I was going ot ask if anyone had asked the chairs
   … I didn't recall a message going out to chairs
   … might be worth doing it again

   koalie: there was one in october

   tink: other chairs may not have had time, worth promoting or
   asking team contacts

   tzviya: I don't remember the message but I'm a chair, our team
   contact pointed out to us that we could customise it
   … people may have missed how to cusotmise it
   … and a reminder to say this exists, make it useful

   tink: It's certainly made things easier, before we were sending
   out those emails manually

   torgo: not sure which work item this is, I think it's in an
   issue, some update on the call to action that we were
   suggesting jeff make to the AC?
   … what happened with that?
   … we were askng jeff to challenge the AC to send more diverse
   people to W3C
   … I lost track of where that action stood or what the current
   status was
   … we had a draft text written at one point?

   tink: I don't recall we got to that point. There is an issue
   … we had a nomination guidence.. issue 18

   <tink> [10]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/18

     [10] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/18

   tink: jeff was the last one to comment

   torgo: seems to have got bogged down in some kind of debate
   with chris wilson

   tink: tobie had suggested a pledge by the looks of it

   torgo: I don't know, I think chris is making a yes but kind of
   arguement.. and I think we should be more strong about ...
   there are multiple things we an do
   … we shouldn't be stopped because we feel like oh well we can't
   do anything
   … I feel like that's the energy that chris is coming at us with
   here in his response
   … it's about how do companies that participate in w3c view the
   contributions to standards internally when it comes to career
   progression in their own orgs
   … I heard something like this recently from somebody who is
   working in w3c and is someone frm an underrperesented group and
   told me their org doesnt' value thier work in this arena, it
   doesn't count towards career progression
   … as much as they would like to do this work
   … I don't think w3c can have that much leverage over orgs to
   encourage them to not think in that way
   … but it doesn't mean we an't do anything
   … we should be at least sending out a message from w3c, from
   jeff ideally, saying we really want to encouarge, cajole,
   convince

   tink: i think you're right, getting a message out is probably
   the firs tstep on a longer road
   … it could be as simple as saying please do all you can to send
   a diverse group of particpatins to w3c, and what does that mean
   … we could include soem bullet points, look to people withing
   your own communities that represent their own groups to find
   volunteers
   … it doesn't need to be complicated

   torgo: I can write a message or a draft text
   … this is an important point

   koalie: there have been a few things done on our end, I can
   think of 3

   <koalie> ------------------------------------------

   <koalie> More Diverse Set of Representatives

   <koalie> ------------------------------------------

   <koalie> This year we would like to challenge W3C members to
   send more diverse

   <koalie> candidates to virtual TPAC. Please encourage your
   experienced colleagues

   <koalie> to mentor them.

   koalie: first, i the mail we sent early july to announce the
   format of tpac, one of the sections in the middle was this ^
   … that was made as a direct result of our conversatins within
   this group
   … but it wasn't from jeff
   … second thing was that during the AC at tpac wendyreid gave a
   presentation to the members about diversity
   … and inclusion
   … she made the difficult ask for them to send a more diverse
   group or try to discuss that at least to get things in motion
   … and jeff in his ceo overview introduced wendy's presentation
   … he mentioned it there as well
   … that's the three things I can think of
   … but what we could get benefit from is advice from peple who
   know how to drive similar campaigns because we don't know how
   to do that
   … as leonie said rightfully, what we can ask from w3c members
   in terms of who they decide to send?

   tink: it does make me wonder if tobie's idea of a pledge is
   worth looking at
   … a statement that is not there on behalf of the w3c, we
   sidestep the need to go through AC endorsement
   … but it is the thing that we could encourage our members to
   sign up to
   … see if we can encourage it by social influence
   … as more member orgs say yes we'll commit to trying to uphold
   this kind of pledge for diverse contribution
   … tobie is that what you had in mind?

   tobie: yes it was, I'm wondering if it wold make sense to find
   a few orgs who would support it when we do announcement about
   it, earlier outreach to see who would be willing
   … and determine exactly what people are pledging

   torgo: I think a pledge is a good idea
   … I was thinking about a request coming from w3c management to
   the AC to encourage them, something along the lines of the text
   that koalie mentioned for tpac but focussing more on w3c
   working group and cg participation rather than tpac
   … something like please consider diversity when making
   deicsions about putting people forward to participate ....
   *reads something really fast*
   … better than not doing anything
   … I think a pledge is also a great idea
   … that could come from this group
   … that doesn't need to be endorsed by w3c m or team
   … that could be something this group produces

   <Judy> +1 to the rough suggestion of text that Dan just gave;
   it's explanatory, and encouraging.

   tobie: there are orgs for which diversity and inclusion is
   really important and they often talk about
   … we should try ot leverage those who actually do care about it

   tink: sounded like the words you just scribbled dan could be
   both things
   … the way you'd written it was very statemten like but
   listening to you read them then it would be quite easy to
   change it slightly so it became a "I pledge to.."
   … it seems like the gist is probably quite closely aligned

   tzviya: I like the direction of the pledge but in the past
   we've talked about not just focussing on diversity but
   inclusion
   … we have samsung here, and amy from digital bazaar
   … if we're looking for companies to spotlight we could do
   something there
   … one of the things we've been cautioned against is inclusion
   … inviting people but also making them welcome
   … I'd love to figure out how we get that inclusiveness message
   in along with the diversity message
   … I agree about shifting some of this work back to the
   organisation
   … I'd liek to talk about how we do that. I'ts important that
   diversity and inclusion becomes a part of w3c and the core
   messaging
   … and we figure out what is the job of this CG and what is the
   job of the organisation
   … I want to know what the AB should be pushing w3c on
   … it's important for us to think about what the job of this
   group andwhich tasks we want tos pread around
   … I welcome feedback with all of my hats on
   … my logistics issue, I need some help associating peoples
   github accounts with w3c accounts if you can shoot the link
   … there's a page of instructions somewhere
   … thanks wendy

   tink: seemed like our immediate volunteer was dan to put some
   words together

   torgo: writing now

   tink: that will give us something to use

   tobie: Im happy to do review and work with dan

   tink: the other thing, going back to tzviya's point about
   making w3c welcming one someone has joined
   … I wonder if there's any way we can between us get some
   feedback from people who have joined or started to particpate
   more recently
   … I know we have several people who joined this cg for the
   first time in the past few weeks, I don't know if any of you
   are new to w3c as a whole
   … possibly between us we have colleauges joining the community
   for the first time. It would be good to talk to peple who have
   recently been in that position to find out what their
   experience was if theyr'e comfortable sharing it
   … I have been at this far too long to remember what this was
   like apart from scary and confusing (a long time ago)
   … Any other actions/updates?

   torgo: to reiterate, people who are currently i nthe idcg,
   should join the pwe cg
   … and after today we will be having joint pwe cg calls which
   are both groups

   tink: yep

   tzviya: i'm goign to be sending an invitation for the first
   meeting, which will be 19th january
   … we have a month break
   … I'll be around, feel free to reach out
   … we can continue to do work
   … we'll be sending an agenda, cleaning the trackers and merging
   github repos, and working on a draft charter
   … the meeting will be on tuesdays, 2nd and 4th, one hour later
   than this meeting
   … the first one will be on the third tuesday because of
   availability
   … I'll be sending an agenda a week in advance and we look
   forward to seeing you there

   torgo: is there a slack channel on the w3c community slack that
   we're using or we can spin up to encourage more async
   communication?
   … I'm happy to do that

   tzviya: yeah do it

   torgo: I'm doing it now

   <koalie> people may join the W3C community slack using
   <[11]https://join.slack.com/t/w3ccommunity/shared_invite/
   zt-cr70arnm-znGpbS~9_7KdQ9tK9XIzMA>

     [11] https://join.slack.com/t/w3ccommunity/shared_invite/zt-cr70arnm-znGpbS~9_7KdQ9tK9XIzMA>

   <koalie> rhiaro, yes, w3c team and w3c community (free plans
   for both, though)

   tzviya: we had the discussion in pwe about naming but not in
   this group. how do people feel in this group about whether we
   go pwe or inclusiveness and diversity?
   … anybody have any strong feelings?

   tobie: outside of what I said at the beginning, no

   tink: we'll continue with these actions, which ever group they
   are in
   … thanks all

   tink: I hope you all get some down time and can relax as much
   as possible
   … thank you all so much for your time and effort

   tzviya: thank you leonie and coralie for chairing!

   <tink> @Coarlie could you send me an email with links and info
   for finding/editing the office hours blog post?

   <koalie> yes, tink, will do

   <koalie> rhiaro, let me find a better link for w3c community
   slack, then

   <koalie> rhiaro, [12]https://twitter.com/w3c/status/
   1252972104456306688

     [12] https://twitter.com/w3c/status/1252972104456306688

   thanks koalie, that works


    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
    [13]scribe.perl version 124 (Wed Oct 28 18:08:33 2020 UTC).

     [13] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html

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   Maybe present: koalie, lola, tink, torgo


--
Coralie Mercier  -  W3C Marketing & Communications -  https://www.w3.org
mailto:coralie@w3.org +337 810 795 22 https://www.w3.org/People/Coralie/

Received on Wednesday, 16 December 2020 11:27:18 UTC