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RE: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

From: <jrmt@almas.co.jp>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:21:34 +0900
To: "'Badral S.'" <badral@bolorsoft.com>, <public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org>
Message-ID: <000e01d11055$d1eb0500$75c10f00$@almas.co.jp>
Hi Badral and All,

 

Great! welcome to raise this issue and declare the insistance of linguists in Mongolia. because I know this the linguistic argument is continued several handrid years.

You can refer the Dr. Liang’s article what I have committed before. 

I don’t care if you want to encode the diphthongs as AYI, EYI, IYI, OYI, UYI, OEYI, UEI. In this case, it is an irregular usage in modern Mongolian and 

Unicode provide you encode the Y as <U+1836_Y, FVS1> in the Diphthongs.

We will continue to use AI, EI, II, OI, UI, OEI, UEI for Diphthongs. Because all of our users will definitely disagree for the removing Diphthongs from Mongolian scripts.

 

Here I am also collecting Mongolian and Computer Science expert’s opinion in Inner Mongolia.

I will commit all of the reply from Inner Mongolia in this thread till we can reach the agreement.

 

Please find attached file interview reply from 4 Computer Science Professors,

Song Yun, Has, Wang Serguleng, Lin Min in Inner Mongolia Normal University.

Let me summary all of the interview replies later. 

 

Thanks and Regards,

 

Jirimutu

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From: Badral S. [mailto:badral@bolorsoft.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 7:06 AM
To: public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org
Subject: Re: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

 

Hi Greg,
Unfortunately, I have to re-open this issue. You are right that you were insecure with my agreement.
I asked today from our Mongolian linguistic team with some Mongolian script experts like Prof. Dr. Sh. Choimaa, Dr. Munkh-Uchral et.al. to confirm this agreement at Mongolian diphthongs. Due to Mongolian language law or what I don't know, somehow the discussion was very intensive, sceptical and concentrated. Nobody has accepted my agreement with ai, ei, oi, ue, üe, öe. I claimed that this encoding seems similar to Mongolian Cyrillic (ай, эй, ой, өй, үй, өй) and simplify our rules significantly. But they argue as follows:
Argument 1: It destabilizes existing Mongolian data. They summarized, that any changes could be only acceptable/doable for some good reason like bug fix, correction (at least like our Da, Na, Ga issues) but not for destruction!
Argument 2: Encoding diphthongs as ai, ei etc. lead damage to Mongolian script. As you all know Mongolian script keeps the alternation rule of consonant and vowel. And we treat ya as a consonant and keep the rule. But if we encode diphthongs as ai, ei etc., it voids the rule.
Argument 3: We should be more concentrated on how to encode Mongolian Script correctly in computer rather than damaging it to make the encoding easier.
Summary: All diphthongs have to be encoded as ayi, eyi, oyi, uyi, öyi, üyi.

Badral

On 15.10.2015 12:20, siqin wrote:

Hi Greg,

In Inner Mongolian, no one thinking the (ai, ei, oi, ui, Oi, Ui) as (ayi, eyi, oyi, uyi, Oyi, Uyi) except experts.
There is many words including middle YI which it's form of the Y is not silbe.
    middle_yi.pdf

SiqinBilige.

On 2015/10/15 16:51, Greg Eck wrote:

Thank you for the clarification, Siqin.

 

On my end, I remember a discussion I had with Professor Quejingzhabu some years back about how to type the double-tooth I/II/YI character/sequence. My teacher in Ulaanbaatar had always taught me that it was a YI. I argued for this with the Professor Quejingzhabu. We came to say that there are different camps that believe different ways and that is it. My feeling is that the font should be as neutral as possible in these cases. That means that camp A should be able to type it his/her way. Camp B should be able to type it his/her way. It is the tool developers working with spell-checkers and such that have the hard time of handling the variation.

 

Greg

 

 

From: siqin [mailto:siqin@almas.co.jp] 
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:27 AM
To: Greg Eck  <mailto:greck@postone.net> <greck@postone.net>; jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp> ; 'Martin J. Dürst'  <mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>; public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org <mailto:public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org> 
Subject: Re: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

 

Greg,

You are right,

Jirimutu means
mongolian diphthongs as
    ai, ei, oi, ui, Oi, Ui
not as
    ayi, eyi, oyi, uyi, Oyi, Uyi
or
    ay, ey, oy, uy, Oy, Uy



On 2015/10/14 23:55, Greg Eck wrote:

Jirimutu,

Then we are looking at the following image (just to make sure there is no mistake due to a font mis-shaping

 

>>>>> 



>>>>> 

 

Greg

 

 






-- 
Badral Sanlig, Software architect
www.bolorsoft.com <http://www.bolorsoft.com>  | www.badral.net <http://www.badral.net> 
Bolorsoft LLC, Selbe Khotkhon 40/4 D2, District 11, Ulaanbaatar

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Received on Tuesday, 27 October 2015 01:22:07 UTC

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