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Re: I18n and Linked Data - an important (but fixable) omission?

From: Martin J. Dürst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 19:19:55 +0900
Message-ID: <4E6896CB.5030106@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
To: Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@dfki.de>
CC: Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>, public-xg-lld@w3.org, public-i18n-core@w3.org
Hello Felix,

On 2011/09/08 17:49, Felix Sasaki wrote:
> Hi Antoine,
> I am putting the i18n core group into the loop. This group has a lot of
> discussions like these, with arguments like you are bringing about IRIs:
> "Many of our readers won't need to know about it, if just because they do
> not really need it".

In many cases, there is indeed no need. But that applies to the 
individual identifier, not the overall infrastructure.

> I assume that even if the library identifiers may work
> with ASCII only,

I'm not familiar with library identifiers in a more narrow sense, but I 
can easily imagine e.g. that in a library in an Arabic-speaking country 
they'll use Arabic characters rather than Latin ones. I'd guess the 
situation would be about the same as with number plates for cars and such.

> there will be in the future more and more a push towards
> domain names that are internationlized, The National Diet Library in Japan
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Diet_Library
> Already has an entry in the Japanese wikipedia that is an IRI
> http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9B%BD%E7%AB%8B%E5%9B%BD%E4%BC%9A%E5%9B%B3%E6%9B%B8%E9%A4%A8

That's trivially an IRI like any other URI because all URIs are IRIs. 
The 'real' IRI is http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/国立国会図書.

This makes tons of sense, because that's how a wiki works: The terms and 
topics get directly reflected in the Web address.

> I think librarians also outside of Japan should how to handle these kind of
> identifiers.


> Background for the i18n core folks: this is about adding a paragraph related
> to IRIs in the "library linked data incubator group" report.

Paragraph or sentence may be up for discussion, but not mentioning it 
would be a very sad omission.

Regards,    Martin.

> Felix
> 2011/9/8 Antoine Isaac<aisaac@few.vu.nl>
>> Hi,
>> I'd object against adding this as a self-standing recommendation. Indeed,
>> it seems more like a general linked data or even web problem, something that
>> goes beyond our library-focused scope. And it would make an extra layer of
>> complexity too visible: the huge majority of material on LD (including
>> TimBL's principle page keep to URIs, and even if it's a quite bad practice,
>> that's for a reason (I expect, mostly because the "difference" between URLs
>> and URIs is hard to get, next to all the other technical LD stuff).
>> Many of our readers won't need to know about it, if just because they do
>> not really need it -- even the more technically savvy ones.
>> That being said, it would be really fair to slip in somewhere one sentence
>> refering to IRIs and their advantages, e.g., when we mention best practices
>> to create identifiers, or in the technology section.
>> Antoine
>>   Here I would disagree. The use of IRIs is pushed forward in many specific
>>> Web standards - just search for "IRI" under www.w3.org/TR/<
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/>  , or for internationalization in many W3C
>>> charters. So the "general web practice" is to mention IRI as much as
>>> possible. I would propose to do the same here.
>>> Felix (being active in the w3c i18n activity for some time).
>>> 2011/9/8 Karen Coyle<kcoyle@kcoyle.net<mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>>
>>>     I see this as a general Web issue, not a Linked Data issue. Presumably
>>> Linked Data will follow Web practice.
>>>     kc
>>>     Quoting Tom Baker<tbaker@tbaker.de<mailto:tbaker@tbaker.de>>:
>>>         All,
>>>         It has been brought to my attention that our report neglects to
>>> acknowledge a
>>>         need for library linked data to consider a growing requirement for
>>>         non-Latin-based URIs -- i.e., Internationalized Resource
>>> Identifiers, or IRIs
>>>         [1]:
>>>         "Since resource identifiers play a crucial role for the Semantic
>>> Web, the
>>>         internatinalization of resource identifiers is of high importance.
>>> It turns
>>>         out that the prevalent resource identification mechanism on the
>>> Semantic
>>>         Web, i.e. URIs, are not sufficient for an efficient
>>> internationalization of
>>>         knowledge bases. Fortunately, with IRIs a standard for
>>> international
>>>         resource identifiers is available, but its support needs much more
>>>         penetration and homogenization in various semantic web technology
>>> stacks.
>>>         In addition, we review various RDF serializations with regard to
>>> their
>>>         support for internationalized knowledge bases. The paper also
>>> contains an
>>>         in-depth review of popular semantic web tools and APIs with regard
>>> to their
>>>         support for internationalization. "
>>>         I'm not aware that anyone raised this during the comment period,
>>> but now that
>>>         it has been raised at the eleventh hour, I think we need to find a
>>> way to
>>>         acknowledge this -- perhaps in an additional sentence or half
>>> sentence in the
>>>         Recommendations section [2].
>>>         Tom
>>>         [1] http://iswc2010.semanticweb.__**org/pdf/385.pdf<
>>> http://iswc2010.semanticweb.**org/pdf/385.pdf<http://iswc2010.semanticweb.org/pdf/385.pdf>
>>>         [2] http://www.w3.org/2005/__**Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft___**
>>> recommendations_page_take2#__**Create_URIs_for_the_items_in__**
>>> _library_datasets<http://www.w3.org/2005/__Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft___recommendations_page_take2#__Create_URIs_for_the_items_in___library_datasets><
>>> http://www.w3.org/2005/**Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_**
>>> recommendations_page_take2#**Create_URIs_for_the_items_in_**
>>> library_datasets<http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_recommendations_page_take2#Create_URIs_for_the_items_in_library_datasets>
>>>         --
>>>         Tom Baker<tom@tombaker.org<mailto:tom@tombaker.org>>
>>>     --
>>>     Karen Coyle
>>>     kcoyle@kcoyle.net<mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>  http://kcoyle.net
>>>     ph: 1-510-540-7596<tel:1-510-540-7596>
>>>     m: 1-510-435-8234<tel:1-510-435-8234>
>>>     skype: kcoylenet
>>> --
>>> Prof. Dr. Felix Sasaki
>>> Senior Researcher, Language Technology Lab
>>> DFKI GmbH, Alt-Moabit 91c, 10559 Berlin, Germany http://www.dfki.de<
>>> http://www.dfki.de/>
>>> phone: +49-30-23895-1807 (fax: -1810)
>>> ------------------------------**------------------
>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
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>>> (Vorsitzender), Dr. Walter Olthoff
>>> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
>>> Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313
>>> Register for the W3C MultilingualWeb Workshop!
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>>> http://multilingualweb.eu/__**register<http://multilingualweb.eu/__register><
>>> http://multilingualweb.eu/**register<http://multilingualweb.eu/register>
Received on Thursday, 8 September 2011 10:20:38 UTC

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