- From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:10:29 +0100
- To: "public-i18n-core@w3.org" <public-i18n-core@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2011/07/27-i18n-minutes.html
Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
27 Jul 2011
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011Jul/0013.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/07/27-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
Richard, Addison, Mati, Felix, Gwyneth
Regrets
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
Addison Phillips
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Minutes and Agenda review
2. [6]Action Items
3. [7]Info Share
4. [8]Media Resources
5. [9]HTML5 REVIEW
* [10]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
Minutes and Agenda review
Action Items
close ACTION-46
<trackbot> ACTION-46 Dump charmod-norm and add disclaimer paragraph,
dates, etc. so that we can publish an interim working draft closed
close ACTION-45
<trackbot> ACTION-45 Publish qa-personal-names for wide review
closed
reopen ACTION-46
<trackbot> ACTION-46 Dump charmod-norm and add disclaimer paragraph,
dates, etc. so that we can publish an interim working draft
re-opened
so close on action 56
Change 512 to 1024 in the charset declaration article
Figure out how to keep alive open bugs for the html5 LC
Info Share
<scribe> ACTION: richard: send addison pisa conference materials as
draft for IUC presentation [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/27-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-60 - Send addison pisa conference
materials as draft for IUC presentation [on Richard Ishida - due
2011-08-03].
Media Resources
[12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2011JulSep/
0022.html
[12]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2011JulSep/0022.html
[13]http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-mediaont-api-1.0-20110712/
[13] http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-mediaont-api-1.0-20110712/
<scribe> ACTION: addison: raise MediaResources issues in tracker and
forward to relevant WG [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/27-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Raise MediaResources issues in
tracker and forward to relevant WG [on Addison Phillips - due
2011-08-03].
HTML5 REVIEW
richard: polyglot
...
<r12a> [15]http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/4
[15] http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/4
<r12a> [16]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/58
[16] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/58
<r12a> ISSUE-58
since UTF-16 is no longer allowed in polyglot documents, should
close
close ISSUE-58
<trackbot> ISSUE-58 In-document declarations always useful closed
[17]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/60
[17] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/60
ISSUE-60
<r12a> ISSUE-60: Omit the either/or list
<trackbot> ISSUE-60 Omit the either/or list notes added
rewritten, so no longer issue
close ISSUE-60
<trackbot> ISSUE-60 Omit the either/or list closed
Mention lang and xml:lang
ISSUE-61
richard: done now. <meta> content language now non-conforming
close ISSUE-61
<trackbot> ISSUE-61 Mention lang and xml:lang closed
Case requirements
ISSUE-62
richard: done, considerably rewritten
close ISSUE-62
<trackbot> ISSUE-62 Case requirements closed
richard: went through the bidi list
... three remaining ones
[18]http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/5
[18] http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/5
ISSUE-26
Please add support for rb
ISSUE-29
ruby code samples
addison: added to prep?
richard: no, reopened
ISSUE-30
Allow utf-16 meta encoding declarations
richard: on-going
... resolved "wontfix" by hixie
... good idea to reopen
addison: UTF-16 allowed in HTML documents but can't declare it
richard: BOM used to declare
addison: reopen it!
richard to open bug
ISSUE-32
rlo and lro attribute values
richard: "punt"
matial: don't see a lot of use for it; nice to have
close it
close ISSUE-32
<trackbot> ISSUE-32 rlo and lro attribute values closed
ISSUE-34
bdo element doesn't leave rendering up to presentation layer
close in favor of new issue
<r12a> [19]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/34
[19] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/34
close ISSUE-34
<trackbot> ISSUE-34 bdo element doesn't leave rendering up to
presentation layer closed
[20]http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/10
[20] http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/10
[21]http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/12
[21] http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/12
ISSUE-76
Clarify 'preferred name' for encodings
[22]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/76
[22] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/76
richard: when ian says "preferred name" means preferred name in
registry if it exists or name at top of entry
... the former is only 22 items
... link is missing here
comment accepted
ISSUE-76: comment accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-76 Clarify 'preferred name' for encodings notes
added
[23]http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/11
[23] http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/11
ISSUE-72
BOM as preferred encoding declaration
richard: section that says how to identify encoding
... one option is BOM and it says "preferred"
... later there is a note that says we (our WG) recommends the
<meta> element
... (and I started editing our article recommending against BOM)
addison: BOM is evil :-)
ISSUE-72: accepted for Polyglot LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-72 BOM as preferred encoding declaration notes
added
ISSUE-73
Case sensitivity of lang
richard: lang in list of attributes that must be lowercase only
... becuase attributes handled case insensitive?
<r12a> [24]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/73
[24] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/73
addison: language tags themselves are case insensitive
richard: it's xml:lang that matters to xml processors
ISSUE-73: accepted for Polyglot LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-73 Case sensitivity of lang notes added
ISSUE-74
Remove Content-Language meta from polyglot
[25]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/74
[25] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/74
richard: all this wording about fallbacks
... so content-language is non-conforming in HTML5 and thus can't be
used in polyglot
... so need to remove from polyglot
... 1. can't use C-L meta in polyglot documents (since
non-conforming)
... 2. therefore remove mention of it from fallback description
because irrelevant
ISSUE-74: accepted for Polyglot LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-74 Remove Content-Language meta from polyglot notes
added
ISSUE-75
Section 11 is blank
non-I18N
personal/editorial comment
<r12a> [26]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/75
[26] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/75
<r12a> ISSUE-137
<r12a> [27]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/137
[27] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/137
html5 bidi support should be normative
richard: ian to add normative section on bidi rendering
[28]http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/10
[28] http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/10
ISSUE-77
HTTP and defaulting to UTF-16LE
<r12a> [29]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/77
[29] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/77
If the HTTP header declares the file to be UTF-16BE, which I believe
it can, and in which case a BOM should *not* be used, then I think
that this would not be true. If the HTTP header declares the file to
be UTF-16, then there must be a BOM, so I assume that this is a
recovery mechanism if someone does declare UTF-16 in HTTP but omits
the BOM. I'd think that some kind of error message would be in order
though.
addison: seems straightforward
ISSUE-77: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-77 HTTP and defaulting to UTF-16LE notes added
[30]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/78
[30] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/78
ISSUE-78
The spellcheck attribute currently is limited to user-edited text.
It would be useful to have some way of identifying content that
should not be spellchecked in an editor or by an automated
spellchecking service. It would seem most intuitive to use the same
attribute for this, but more carefully distinguish between the case
where the user agent is dealing with user editable text and
non-user-editable text, if necessary.
addison: so a processing instruction for editing tools??
... i18n issue? or general?
felix: borderline between ITS and I18N and general
... think it's important
ISSUE-78: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-78 Spellcheck should work in editors notes added
ISSUE-79
Multilingual q quote rendering
[31]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/79
[31] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/79
It would be useful to add a note to this section to remind readers
that the default characters used for quotation marks are set in the
default stylesheet[$1\47], and will vary depending on the user's
locale and language preferences. But that users may need to override
the defaults for text in a particular language, and that they can do
so using the quotes property in CSS
([32]http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#quotes-specify).
[32] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#quotes-specify).
addison: think this is a good comment
richard: there is a note that UA's should take language into account
... language of the UA
addison: but that's wrong... should be language of content
gwyneth: does it take into account spacing (such as french use of
NBSP)
... CSS page doesn't indicate spaces
ISSUE-79: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-79 Multilingual q quote rendering notes added
ISSUE-80
Default rules for the quotes property
[33]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/80
[33] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/80
<r12a>
[34]http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/rendering.html#punctuation-and-decora
tions
[34]
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/rendering.html#punctuation-and-decorations
"Rules setting the 'quotes' property appropriately for the locales
and languages understood by the user are expected to be present."
How are the locales and languages understood by the user determined?
Is this related to the Accept-Language settings of the browser? I'm
assuming that the requirement here is to provide a single default
only per browser installation, rather than to provide defaults for
text in various languages (which would be a nice plus). If
ISSUE-80: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-80 Default rules for the quotes property notes
added
ISSUE-80: should apply rules based on the language of document
<trackbot> ISSUE-80 Default rules for the quotes property notes
added
quote shapes based on language of document except potentially using
browser language or A-L as an ultimate fallback
ISSUE-80: quote shapes based on language of document except
potentially using browser language or A-L as an ultimate fallback
<trackbot> ISSUE-80 Default rules for the quotes property notes
added
<r12a> [35]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/80
[35] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/80
ISSUE-81
Strip other line-terminators?
[36]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/81
[36] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/81
Where it says: -- When a user agent is to strip line breaks from a
string, the user agent must remove any U+000A LINE FEED (LF) and
U+000D CARRIAGE RETURN (CR) characters from that string. -- Should
other line-terminators also be included here?
ISSUE-81: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-81 Strip other line-terminators? notes added
<r12a> [37]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/81
[37] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/81
ISSUE-82
Non-ASCII enumerated values
[38]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/82
[38] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/82
I realize that the set of "enumerated values" in HTML5 consists
strictly of ASCII strings. However, there is no syntactical
requirement that this be true. Non-ASCII values could be included
into an enumerated value set, in which case, the "ACSII
case-insensitive" match may be incomplete. Instead of using "ASCII
case-insensitive", could Unicode case-folded matching be defined
instead? This is stable, well-defined, and a strict superset of the
ASCII case?
addison: somewhat pedantic, may not be worth raising?
ISSUE-82: rejected for LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-82 Non-ASCII enumerated values notes added
close ISSUE-82
<trackbot> ISSUE-82 Non-ASCII enumerated values closed
ISSUE-83
Note about why Gregorian only used
[39]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/83
[39] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/83
The section describes date values using strictly the Gregorian
calendar. As long as the values are strictly internal (as a means of
representing incremental or floating time values, cf. our note
Working With Time Zones), this doesn't represent a barrier to the
use of other calendric systems. Please include a note indicating
this so that international users understand why Gregorian is used
here.
ISSUE-83: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-83 Note about why Gregorian only used notes added
ISSUE-84
Representing BCE months
[40]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/84
[40] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/84
The 'months' definition only handles dates from the (proleptic)
Gregorian year 0 in the common era going forwards. There is no way
to represent BCE dates. Should there be?
month="1903-10"
gwyneth: need an "era" field?
... need to explain this comment more
ISSUE-84: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-84 Representing BCE months notes added
ISSUE-85
Health warning about converting date to/from incremental time
The 'date' definition contains no time zone information. It is thus
a floating date value and a health warning should be included about
converting it to/from incremental time values.
date="2011-06-28T14:34:55.007"
ISSUE-85: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-85 Health warning about converting date to/from
incremental time notes added
ISSUE-86
Option for 1 digit hour
ISSUE-85: mention efforts on JavaScript inclusion of zone info
<trackbot> ISSUE-85 Health warning about converting date to/from
incremental time notes added
[41]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/86
[41] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/86
In parsing a 'time' value, the rule for the hours section is: "Two
digits, representing hour, in the range 0 ≤ hour ≤ 23". Should this
optionally allow only one digit?
richard: actually tripped over this
time="0:00:00"
ISSUE-86: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-86 Option for 1 digit hour notes added
ISSUE-86: many users will make this error and the result will be an
error rather than a time
<trackbot> ISSUE-86 Option for 1 digit hour notes added
ISSUE-87
Leap seconds
[42]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/87
[42] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/87
There is a note disallowing the representation of leap seconds. This
poses a potential problem for applications sensitive to leap
seconds. Should the values be allowed, even if later processing does
not deal with it?
<Gwyneth> The International Earth Rotation And Reference Systems
Service (IERS) Earth Orientation Center is taking comments on
whether to get rid of leap seconds.
[43]http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/index.php?index=questionnaire
[43] http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/index.php?index=questionnaire
datetime="1980-01-01T00:00:60"
ISSUE-87: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-87 Leap seconds notes added
ISSUE-88
Local/floating date and time
This defines a 'global date and time', which is the same as a 'local
date and time', only with a time zone representation. I propose
changing the 'local' value to use the term 'floating' (since it is
not truly local). The term 'global' could remain. I would also
suggest adding a reference to w3.org/TR/timezone (our note) to help
users understand when to use which type.
ISSUE-88: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-88 Local/floating date and time notes added
ISSUE-89
Time zones and local dates and times
<Gwyneth> I need to head out to another meeting. Sorry.
[44]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/89
[44] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/89
This section defines 'local dates and times', which is a
date-and-time value *without* a time zone. This type seems
problematic because it does not deal with the time zone problem. Its
relationship to either floating or incremental times is completely
arbitrary. See also Issue 88.
addison: so have more understanding... modeling JS Date(). There are
use cases like airline schedules where useful. Question is about
giving good guidance to authors.
... call for a health warning related to time zones?
ISSUE-89: update to call for health warning on use of local dates
and times
<trackbot> ISSUE-89 Time zones and local dates and times notes added
ISSUE-89: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-89 Time zones and local dates and times notes added
ISSUE-91
15 minute time zones
[45]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/91
[45] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/91
The note on time zone offsets says in part: "...and the minutes
component of offsets of actual time zones is always either 00, 30,
or 45." Really this is arbitrary and prone to change. The total
range of time zones also changes from time to time. I would suggest
inserting a "at the time this document was published" caveat such
that innocent readers are not caught by surprise by a new 15 mintue
time zone offset or by more monkey business surrounding the IDL.
ISSUE-91: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-91 15 minute time zones notes added
ISSUE-92
Time zone offset vs. time zone
[46]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/92
[46] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/92
This section gives a number of examples that equate time zone offset
with an actual time zone. For example: --
"1979-10-14T12:00:00.001-04:00" One millisecond after noon on
October 14th 1979, in the time zone in use on the east coast of the
USA during daylight saving time. -- It should be made clear that a
zone offset is not the same thing as a time zone. Mention should be
made of the need for separate time zone information when working
with real date and t
ISSUE-92: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-92 Time zone offset vs. time zone notes added
ISSUE-93
[47]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/93
[47] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/93
implicit conversion to incremental time
Rule 9 in the parsing of a valid global date and time is: "Let time
be the moment in time at year year, month month, day day, hours
hour, minute minute, second second, subtracting timezonehours hours
and timezoneminutes minutes. That moment in time is a moment in the
UTC time zone.". It is not clear what type 'time' is. It appears to
be a field-based time value, but it this intended as an implicit
conversion to incremental time?
ISSUE-93: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-93 Implicit conversion to incremental time? notes
added
ISSUE-94
[48]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/94
[48] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/94
Allowing culturally specific week rules
This section defines 'weeks'. The rules for weeks and week counting
are culturally linked, but these rules define week start as always
Monday. The rule for determining the "first week" that it includes
the first Thursday (again, a culturally variant value). Shouldn't
there be provision for allowing culturally specific week rules be
applied?
<matial> definitely
ISSUE-94: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-94 Allowing culturally specific week rules notes
added
ISSUE-95
[49]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/95
[49] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/95
Limitations and defaults for accept-charset
The "accept-charset" field is said to "gives the character encodings
that are to be used for the submission". Is this a real limitation
on the encodings used? Is there a default value (presumably the page
encoding)?
[50]http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/forms.html#the-form-element
[50] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/forms.html#the-form-element
present for backward compatibility?
ISSUE-95: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-95 Limitations and defaults for accept-charset
notes added
ISSUE-96
Allowing for EAI
The email address validation scheme quotes ABNF from RFC 5322 and
doesn't appear to allow addresses that are IDNA. While EAI is kinda
slow moving, shouldn't HTML5 allow for it?
<r12a> [51]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11579
[51] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11579
<r12a> Support for internationalized e-mail addresses
ISSUE-96: add this issue to HTML5 bug 11579
<trackbot> ISSUE-96 Allowing for EAI notes added
ISSUE-97
Allowing a page to request a given locale
[52]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/97
[52] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/97
-- The format shown to the user is independent of the format used
for form submission. Browsers are encouraged to use user interfaces
that present dates and times according to the conventions of the
user's preferred locale. -- Should we encourage the use of the
*page's* preferred locale? It would be best if we could provide a
way for page authors to create a consistent user experience. Work on
the ECMAScript I18N extension may eventually help here, but only
matial: provide authors ability to override user's preferences, but
user's preferences should work in absense of an override
ISSUE-97: accepted for HTML5 LC
<trackbot> ISSUE-97 Allowing a page to request a given locale notes
added
<scribe> ACTION: addison: write to HTML5 chairs and ask for
extension to complete our comments targetting mid-August (??)
[recorded in
[53]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/27-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-62 - Write to HTML5 chairs and ask for
extension to complete our comments targetting mid-August (??) [on
Addison Phillips - due 2011-08-03].
close ISSUE-128
<trackbot> ISSUE-128 Why is content-language non-conforming? closed
<scribe> ACTION: addison: file accepted as accepted and unreviewed
comments as provisional [recorded in
[54]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/27-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - File accepted as accepted and
unreviewed comments as provisional [on Addison Phillips - due
2011-08-03].
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: addison: file accepted as accepted and unreviewed
comments as provisional [recorded in
[55]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/27-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: addison: raise MediaResources issues in tracker and
forward to relevant WG [recorded in
[56]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/27-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: addison: write to HTML5 chairs and ask for extension
to complete our comments targetting mid-August (??) [recorded in
[57]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/27-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: send addison pisa conference materials as
draft for IUC presentation [recorded in
[58]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/27-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
--
Richard Ishida
Internationalization Activity Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)
http://www.w3.org/International/
http://rishida.net/
Register for the W3C MultilingualWeb Workshop!
Limerick, 21-22 September 2011
http://multilingualweb.eu/register
Received on Wednesday, 27 July 2011 17:10:53 UTC