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RE: Urdu IDNs

From: Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain@nu.edu.pk>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:35:32 +0500
To: <gaaron@afilias.info>, "'Najib Tounsi'" <ntounsi@emi.ac.ma>
Cc: <public-i18n-core@w3.org>, "'NayyaraKaramat'" <Nayyara.Karamat@nu.edu.pk>
Message-ID: <46a0d729.143f420a.25a1.7f87@mx.google.com>
Dear Greg,


Yes, for now.


We are currently trying to figure out what would be the “academic” requirements/solutions for a language.  To practically solve the problem, organizations like ICANN would need to come up with the solutions.  


We have already registered two “Urdu” IDNs (actually Arabic script IDNs) which are working.  We were told by the issuing agency that only .net is currently available.  







From: Greg Aaron [mailto:gaaron@afilias.info] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:48 PM
To: 'Sarmad Hussain'; 'Najib Tounsi'
Cc: public-i18n-core@w3.org; 'NayyaraKaramat'
Subject: RE: Urdu IDNs


Dear Sarmad:


Thank you.  So to be clear, the plug-in will convert the Perso-Arabic script into punycode.  


What if another registry accepts punycode, but does not have an IDN table enabled for Perso-Arabic or Urdu?  In this case, will you allow the plug-in to work for that TLD?


BTW, the .NET and .COM TLDs have the same IDN policies as each other and operate on a shared technical system.  Neither allows registrations in Urdu as far as I know.


With best wishes,

--Greg Aaron



From: Sarmad Hussain [mailto:sarmad.hussain@nu.edu.pk] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 1:09 AM
To: gaaron@afilias.info; 'Najib Tounsi'
Cc: public-i18n-core@w3.org; 'NayyaraKaramat'
Subject: RE: Urdu IDNs


Dear Greg Aaron,


Currently punycode conversion will only be for the domain name.  The TLDs will be mapped to corresponding English versions, not converted to punycode until ICANN enables such TLDs.  


Thus would get converted to www.punycode-for-domain-name.net <http://www.punycode-for-domain-name.net/> . .Net allows punycode.  Other TLDs like .com, .pk will not be possible until they are enabled. 





From: Greg Aaron [mailto:gaaron@afilias.info] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:40 AM
To: sarmad.hussain@nu.edu.pk; 'Najib Tounsi'
Cc: public-i18n-core@w3.org; 'NayyaraKaramat'
Subject: RE: Urdu IDNs


Dear Sarmad:


Can you explain in more detail what your browser plug-in will do, and what it will do with the various domain name labels?  (Especially to the right of the final dot?)


For example, what will happen if a user with this plug-in types in an all-Urdu domain name, including an Urdu version of .”COM”?  (i.e. the domain name labels are all in Urdu.)  I am having trouble understanding what will happen next.  You say that users will type in the “URL in Urdu, strips and maps all the TLD information to .com, .pk, etc. and converts the domain name to punycode.”  But the .COM registry does not allow IDN registrations in Urdu.  Will your browser plug-in try to direct the user to the ASCII version of the .COM site?  


What does PKNIC registry think of the plug-in?


With best wishes,

--Greg Aaron




From: public-i18n-core-request@w3.org [mailto:public-i18n-core-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Sarmad Hussain
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 2:07 PM
To: Najib Tounsi
Cc: public-i18n-core@w3.org; NayyaraKaramat
Subject: Re: Urdu IDNs


Dear Najib,


We are trying to make the URL enabled in Urdu for people who are not literate in any other language (a large majority of literate population in Pakistan).  ICANN has only given specs for the Domain Name in other languages (through its RFCs).  Until they allow the TLDs in Urdu, we are considering an application end solution: have a plug in for a browser for people who want to use it, which URL in Urdu, strips and maps all the TLD information to .com, .pk, etc. and converts the domain name to punycode Thus, people can type URLs in pure Urdu which are converted to the mixed English-Urdu URLs by the application layer which ICANN currently allows.  




On 6/29/07, Najib Tounsi <ntounsi@emi.ac.ma> wrote: 

Sarmad Hussain wrote: 

Dear Najib,

The source of the translation is as below:


Ref : Quami Urdu English Dictionary

Edited by: Dr Jameel Jalibi

Published by: National Language Authority Pakistan

Publishing Year:1992, pg. 1272

Morroco (noun):مراکش،مراکو

Moroccan (Noun) مراکشی باشندہ،مراکش کا رہنے والا،شمالی مغربی افریقہ کا ایک ملک 

Moroccan (adj)مراکشی


Dear Sarmad,

This may be the opprtunity to update the dictionnary. :-) 
There are some books/authors who still refer to Morocco as Marrakech. Historians say it is actually wrong to talk about Morocco as Marrakech. 

Any way, I would like your opinion about my second question. See bellow 

You may be right that the city name has been generalized to refer to the country.  However, this seems to be the conventional translation in Urdu. 


Best regards,



Sarmad Hussain wrote: 

Dear Martin and others,


Re. TLDs, the translations are for Urdu only and are just to simply map onto
existing English TLDs (and are not proposing new Urdu TLDs).  This mapping
is to allow complete Urdu address, at least on the user interface. `

Second: What do you mean by user interface. Urdu specific applications or UAs in general, e.g. browsers like Firefox and others? 

The above question.

Best regards,


Najib TOUNSI (mailto:tounsi @  <http://w3.org/> 
w3.org <http://w3.org/> )
Bureau W3C au Maroc (http://www.w3c.org.ma/)
Ecole Mohammadia d'Ingenieurs, BP 765 Agdal-RABAT Maroc (Morocco)
Phone : +212 (0) 37 68 71 50 (P1711)  Fax : +212 (0) 37 77 88 53
Mobile: +212 (0) 61 22 00 30 

Sarmad Hussain
Professor and Head
Center for Research in Urdu Language Processing 
National University of Compter and Emerging Sciences
B Block Faisal Town
Lahore, Pakistan

Ph: +9242 111 128128
Fax: +9242 5165232
URL: www.crulp.org 

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Received on Friday, 20 July 2007 15:39:28 UTC

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