- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 00:08:36 +0900
- To: "public-i18n-core@w3.org" <public-i18n-core@w3.org>
... are at http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html and below
as text.
Felix
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
i18n core working group
19 Sep 2006
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Sep/0001.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-irc
Attendees
Present
Felix, Francois, Richard
Regrets
Mary
Chair
Francois
Scribe
Felix
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]action items
2. [6]ITS review - what is left? E.g. discussion on
Bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1
3. [7]discussion on Bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1
4. [8]XML Schema issue
5. [9]LC reviews
* [10]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<scribe> scribe: Felix
<scribe> scribeNick: fsasaki
action items
<scribe> ACTION: Everybody to look at input mode discussion
(DROPPED) [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]
<scribe> ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather
feedback (PENDING) [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]
Felix: Chris Lilley asked for IRI tests for SVG tiny 1.2 , I thought
of creating a mini-test suite
Francois: we have no bandwith for a full test suite. Is the scope of
the SVG tiny tests clear?
Felix: no, so far only PC between Chris and me
<fyergeau> [13]http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/CR-SVGMobile12-20060810/
[13] http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/CR-SVGMobile12-20060810/
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to write a mail about possibility for SVG
tiny specific IRI tests to martin and the i18n core list [recorded
in [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]
<scribe> ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
norm (PENDING) [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]
<scribe> ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu
on ws-i18n (PENDING) [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]
<scribe> ACTION: Francois to give input to wiki for the LTLI summary
[recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]
Wiki
prepared by Richard, see
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jul/002
6.html
[18]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jul/0026.html
<scribe> ACTION: Richard to review XHTML Basic
1.1$B!!(Band XHTML$B!!(BModularization 1.1
(DROPPED) [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]
ITS review - what is left? E.g. discussion on Bidi-override scope in
CSS2 and CSS 2.1
Richard: I think we are done with the ITS review, I need to double
check
discussion on Bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1
Richard: I wrote a long mail on this yesterday, with about 7
questions
... some for XHTML people, some for CSS people
... we have to wait for some response from CSS
... basic idea: Martin and I believe that if you declare override on
the block-element, everything in that element should be overriden
... currently, CSS 2.1 don't say that, and the current
implementations in browsers follow CSS 2.1
Francois: e.g. if you have a dir attribute at a <div> element,
everything should be overriden?
Richard: currently there is no override for CSS 2: if there is a <p>
in the <div>, nothing will happen
... in CSS 2.1, there will be an override for the <p> , but not for
e.g. a <div> within the <div>
... e.g. text in a <p> in a <div> within a <div> will not be
reordered
Francois: sounds strange. Touches many working groups
... very specialized subject for some people. We should try to
engage them, does Najib know about this?
Richard: no
... Paul Nelson got involved a bit
... what do you think what should happen?
Francois: I think everything in a <div> should be overriden
... there could be reasons not to override everything
Felix: I would follow Richard's and Martin's proposal
Richard: having e.g. dir="rtl" would cancel the override
... for an embedded element
Francois: having override on a block element is not an interesting
requirement
... it is only for small bits of text
Richard: I recently edited a boiler template text for Hebrew /
Arabic
... in that case, I really wanted to have the override
(discussion on use-cases for block-level override)
(Richard says that dealing with visualy ordered text is a use case)
Richard: the behavior of CSS 2.1 described at [Question 3 (CSS)]
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/
0157.html is what current browsers do
[20]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/0157.html
Francois: does this relate to bidi-override inheritance?
Richard: we have to consider in ITS what that means
... we say in ITS that RLO is inherited, but say that the behavior
depends on the implementation
... so we separated inheritance from behavior
Felix: in ITS, there is nothing about behavior, all is about
inheritance of information - for all data categories
Francois: we should get more people in this discussion
... Richard showed in his mail that specs and behaviors contradict
... I think there is a bidi-list at Unicode, we should invite people
from that list
Richard: we could also blog on it, or discuss it on
www-international
Francois: we might loose the style people
... so we move out of of i18n-core, and go to www-international
... what about Paul's reply to your mail?
Richard: I'm not sure what he is up to
Francois: inheritance in CSS means: if s.t. is inherited, the effect
is the same as being specified at a specific element
Richard: for directionality, that means a new embedding level
Francois: yes.
... you could also say that directionality is not inherited, but the
effect "goes down"
Richard: you have 3 ways of inheritance: ITS (no behavior, only
inheritance of information)
... behavior without inheritance, and inheritance together with
behavior
... what will happen without markup, with multiple lines of text?
... is there some effect of newlines?
Francois: newlines in XML are just converted to spaces
Richard: what about plain text?
Francois: not aware of a specific handling
Richard: next step: I resend the mail to www-international and the
style-list
Francois: copy the BIDI-unicode list
<scribe> ACTION: Richard to send his mail on bidi-override scope in
CSS2 and CSS 2.1 to www-international and the style-list, and copy
the BIDI-unicode list [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]
XML Schema issue
[22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/
0134.html
[22]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/0134.html
Francois summarizes the mail
Richard: we have enough on the battle of early normalization
Francois: yes
... I sad it was a good idea
... we cannot have early Unicode normalization, so it is better to
have this
... I send my reply to Michael also to the list and wait a week
<scribe> ACTION: Francois to send his reply on xml schema to the
list [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]
LC reviews
Felix: possibility of reviewing Voice Extensible Markup Language
(VoiceXML) 2.1
... see [24]http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-voicexml21-20060915/
[24] http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-voicexml21-20060915/
Francois: changes at
[25]http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-voicexml21-20060915/#sec-changes
... nothing i18n specific it seems
[25] http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-voicexml21-20060915/#sec-changes
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Felix to write a mail about possibility for SVG tiny
specific IRI tests to martin and the i18n core list [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Francois to give input to wiki for the LTLI summary
[recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Francois to send his reply on xml schema to the list
[recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: Richard to send his mail on bidi-override scope in
CSS2 and CSS 2.1 to www-international and the style-list, and copy
the BIDI-unicode list [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]
[PENDING] ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather
feedback [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
norm [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu
on ws-i18n [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]
[DROPPED] ACTION: Everybody to look at input mode discussion
[recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]
[DROPPED] ACTION: Richard to review XHTML Basic
1.1$B!!(Band XHTML$B!!(BModularization 1.1
[recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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Received on Tuesday, 19 September 2006 15:08:49 UTC