minutes from the January 29 meeting of the Hypertext Coordination Group

These minutes include a discussion of the DOMActivate event
during the January 29 Hypertext Coordination Group call.
Note that there are some member-only links, but it should
be possible to follow the discussion from the minutes.

http://www.w3.org/2010/01/29-hcg-minutes.html

and below as text.
   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                               HCG call
                              29 Jan 2010

   [2]Agenda

      [2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010JanMar/0020.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/29-hcg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Kazuyuki, Janina, Daniel_Glazman, Debbie_Dahl, Paul_Cotton,
          Bert, Doug_Schepers

   Regrets
          Chris

   Chair
          Debbie

   Scribe
          Paulc

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]action items
         2. [6]possible series of F2F meetings
         3. [7]Dom activate event
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <glazou> kaz: +1.617.761.6200, conference code 4824 ("HTCG")

   <Bert> [9]agenda

      [9] http://www.w3.org/mid/05c301caa04c$507c6a10$6801a8c0@chimaera

   <shepazu>
   [10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010JanMar/0023.
   html

     [10]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010JanMar/0023.html

   <kaz> agenda:
   [11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010JanMar/0023.
   html

     [11]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010JanMar/0023.html

   <scribe> scribe: Paulc

   <kaz> scribenick: paulc

   tx

action items

   ACTION-32 is continued.

   ACTION-41 on charter extension. Chair thinks it was being extended.
   Leave open until we have definitive answer.

   Extension was done since it was not clear how to handle the public
   vs private archive discussion.

   There is a public HCG mailing list.

   <ddahl> public-hypertext-cg

   <ddahl> public-hypertext-cg

   <ddahl> public HCG list: public-hypertext-cg

   <ddahl> public hcg list: public-hypertext-cg

   <shepazu>
   [12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-hypertext-cg/

     [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-hypertext-cg/

   Minutes public or not?

   So far the previous minutes have not been posted.

   No prior discussion on openness on DOM discussion on this meeting's
   agenda.

   action on debbie_dahl to post previous minutes to public hcg list

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - on

   Action debbie_dahl to post previous minutes (last meeting) on public
   hcg list

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - debbie_dahl

   action ddahl to post previous minutes (last meeting) on public hcg
   list

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ddahl

   <ddahl> zakim who is here?

   <kaz> ACTION: dahl to post previous minutes (last meeting) on public
   hcg list [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/29-hcg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Post previous minutes (last meeting)
   on public hcg list [on Deborah Dahl - due 2010-02-05].

   <shepazu> ACTION-41?

   <trackbot> ACTION-41 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to and Chris to work on
   a proposed charter for the Group -- due 2009-11-27 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [14]http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/41

     [14] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/41

   <Bert> trackbot, help?

   <trackbot> See [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

   <Bert> trackbot, status?

   Any objection to making today's HCG discussions public?

   No objections from Paulc

   <shepazu> [I note that it is much less streamlined to try to get
   agreement about posting minutes in public, and would be much easier
   simply to default to public]

   ACTION-42?

   <trackbot> ACTION-42 -- Chris Lilley to create telcon time WBS
   survey -- due 2010-01-22 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/42

     [16] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/42

   Art wrote to the list to withdraw his request.

   Chris's action is still open.

   ACTION-43?

   <trackbot> ACTION-43 -- Doug Schepers to start a wiki page to
   summarize the 2 goals, with Use cases and requirements for each goal
   -- due 2010-01-22 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/43

     [17] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/43

   From last HCG call but memories are fading ...

   Where is the HCG wiki page?

   No page currently so step one is from Doug to get us a wiki page.

   Debbie: was this specifically an HCG wiki or something else?

   Doug will figure this out.

   <kaz> [[

   <kaz> shepazu: question is, are we doing tests to help specs pass
   CR, or

   <kaz> to improve interop by testing all browsers on all platforms?

   <kaz> ]]

   ACTION-44

   ACTION-44?

   <trackbot> ACTION-44 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to look into funding for
   browser testing from Web Foundation and NIST -- due 2010-01-22 --
   OPEN

   <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/44

     [18] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/44

   ACTION-44 is continued ...

possible series of F2F meetings

   <kaz> [19]Paul's message

     [19]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010JanMar/0022.html

   Paul introduced the joint F2F meeting topic.

   <glazou> glazou thinks local bayarea meetings are not a good idea

   <glazou> glazou thinks some members will be left out of the loop

   <glazou> glazou thinks we should stick with official ftf meetings

   <glazou> not extra meetings

   <ddahl> debbie: is this an informal local meeting or an actual f2f
   meeting?

   <ddahl> daniel: doesn't want to have extra meetings that aren't part
   of the process

   Members committed to 20% and 4 meetings per year in some WGs

   Chairs/Team - were trying to guage interest in a F2F meeting

   Modified proposal: SVG will shift its F2F meeting to permit it to
   meet with CSS

   CSS and SVG would then be able to meet together

   <shepazu> 27-31 March

   F2F's would be Bay Area - CSS is meeting at Apple

   As of today this description only applies to CSS and SVG

   Webapps does not normally have f2F meetings

   <Steven> Aplogies for lateness - meeting overran

   Doug has not got much feedback from Webapps members

   SVG is willing to give one or two days over to meeting with other
   groups

   Those dates are overlapping with Passover and Easter.

   SVG is interested in coordinating with Webapps and TC39 about their
   resdesign of the SVG DOM.

   Debbie: Is this a mini-tp or just some WGs?

   So far not sure - we are stubbling in the dark try to figure out
   what is going on here?

   SVG is overdue for coordination.

   Doug: HTML WG and Webapps probably don't need coordination.

   HTML WG charter: [20]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/HTML-WG-charter

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/HTML-WG-charter

   <glazou> Steven: Microsoft powwwwaaaaa . ;-)

   paul's summary: SVG and CSS are thinking about meeting together and
   HTML WG is trying to decide what to do.

   Paul suggest's we move on.

   We aired some issues and discussed it.

   Chairs will continue to coordinate on possible joint meetings.

Dom activate event

   <kaz> [21]Steven's message

     [21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010JanMar/0009.html

   <kaz> [22]Doug's response

     [22]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010JanMar/0010.html

   <shepazu> DOM3 Events ->
   [23]http://dev.w3.org//2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Even
   ts.html#event-flow-activation

     [23]
http://dev.w3.org//2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#even
t-flow-activation

   <glazou> nobody's minuting ??

   Steven explains the XForms view.

   There is a lot of content out there that uses DOMActivate.

   If this is changed to "click" then there is a mismatch.

   XForm is NOT a standalone language.

   It would be better if "click" would also cause a "DOMActivate" to be
   fired to not break existing content.

   Doug's new spec tries to speak to this but this is new content that
   HCG members had not seen before.

   Steven and Doug debate his spec - hard to scribe

   Browsers are now treating "Click" ala DOMActivate in browsers but
   they did not implement/invoke DOMActivate

   Doug: This is unfortunate but it is the situation.
   ... If someone is focused on a link and they follow the link that
   synthesizes a "click" event which is processed.
   ... His rewrite says that for implementations that support
   DOMActivate they should synthezie both one "click" and one
   "DOMActivate" but the activation behaviour MUST only occur once.
   ... This should handle the XForms requirement expressed by Steven.

   Steven: Part of the probem is that an implementation will not know
   that XForms is embedded.

   Doug: Points to "trusted events" which are different than "script
   events". Might be useful for XForms.
   ... This is not described in his spec or email.

   Steven: Might be better in the spec if its required.
   ... WAI groups are discussing this as well.
   ... This is a good HCG topic.

   ACTION Doug to followup with possible spec revision and explanation
   of how this relates to XForms

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Followup with possible spec revision
   and explanation of how this relates to XForms [on Doug Schepers -
   due 2010-02-05].

   <glazou> in a month then

   no objection to public posting as long as the Chairs attempt to
   clean up these notes

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: dahl to post previous minutes (last meeting) on public
   hcg list [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/29-hcg-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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    $Date: 2010/01/29 16:05:07 $

Received on Thursday, 11 February 2010 22:21:01 UTC