W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > March 2015

Re: [whatwg] HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without Javascript

From: Brian Kardell <bkardell@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 12:10:53 -0400
Message-ID: <CADC=+jeu0bS9i92_BoKb9ybmL_7df-yAxOnP6Sz8xTgKo1a6Xw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bobby Mozumder <mozumder@futureclaw.com>
Cc: "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>, WHATWG <whatwg@whatwg.org>
Going to liberally snip the bits I'm responding to...

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:10 AM, Bobby Mozumder <mozumder@futureclaw.com> wrote:
> There’s a standard design pattern emerging via all the front-end javascript frameworks where content is loaded dynamically via JSON APIs.  This is the single-page app web design pattern.


> Since this is so common now, can we implement this directly in the browsers via HTML so users can dynamically run single-page apps without Javascript?


> Anyways, what do you think about this?  I think something like this could eliminate a lot of Javascript.  These javascript frameworks are all trying to do this, but none of them do it easily and they’re always being redesigned.  Something should be done to standardize on it at a higher level.  There’s a tremendous speed advantage in this, and we shouldn’t have to program in Javascript for such a common design pattern.  Web pages should be loadable with 60fps speeds and should be as responsive as native apps.
> -bobby
> ---
> Bobby Mozumder
> Editor-in-Chief
> FutureClaw Magazine
> mozumder@futureclaw.com <mailto:mozumder@futureclaw.com>
> +1-240-745-5287
> www.futureclaw.com <http://www.futureclaw.com/>
> twitter.com/futureclaw <https://www.twitter.com/futureclaw>
> www.linkedin.com/in/mozumder <http://www.linkedin.com/in/mozumder>

A few things worth noting:  First, we've actually tried a bunch of
this before, and you're not using it now so I think we can say that at
some level it was unsuccessful.  Second, I am going to submit for
comment that there are a couple of significant reasons why it failed
and why I don't expect we'd have much more success with it if we were
to take it up right now and you can kind of sum them up like this:
There isn't something close enough to actually emerging that remotely
looks ready and standards bodies are historically terrible at that
class of problem.

It's a really, really, really hard problem to abstract something at
such a high level which meets all of the use cases people actually
have which plays into why there are so many ever-changing solutions in
the ecosystem - they're actually trying to figure it out and that's a
good thing.  It's rarely as simple as it appears at first blush and
good ideas breed new possibilities of even better realizations.  As
the number of people using these tools increases, we gain additional
input and data - Along the way they are helping to identify where
there _are_ commonalities and suggest lower level additions that can
be standardized as well as providing necessary failed experiments that
go into finding a good solution.  In general, see
http://extensiblewebmanifesto.org or search for articles/posts related
for the thoughts of a lot of us in the community on topics like this
and, if you have an idea for what would be better - find some people
to help you build it, give people an opportunity to try it and see...
Where you can't, raise interesting questions about why and lets build
up a platform where we can make reasonable explanations to build up
higher-level proposals.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents, as they say.

Brian Kardell :: @briankardell :: hitchjs.com
Received on Friday, 20 March 2015 16:11:20 UTC

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