- From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:56:00 +0100
- To: Reinier Kaper <rp.kaper@gmail.com>
- Cc: Willem-Siebe Spoelstra <info@spoelstra.ws>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CA+ri+VmCLBGHfyBB1UBm6qetjLCG45cp-yG6fORwj+njMFHi8Q@mail.gmail.com>
OK heading added https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/cab7c50112af227a4a4d04543ce98c6525412ec8 -- Regards SteveF HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> On 16 October 2013 15:48, Reinier Kaper <rp.kaper@gmail.com> wrote: > Isn't a heading required in any sectioning content anyway? > So might as well make the 'You are here' a heading. > > > On 16 October 2013 10:24, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Willem, >> >> what code are you suggesting? a heading? >> >> -- >> >> Regards >> >> SteveF >> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> >> >> >> On 16 October 2013 15:22, Willem-Siebe Spoelstra <info@spoelstra.ws>wrote: >> >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> You convinced me of the arrows and I downloaded NVDA myself also! >>> Thanks for adding <a></a> to the current page list item, and thanks to >>> Ben Barber bringing this up. >>> >>> The only thing is I still don't understand why to leave the nav element >>> unnamed. I think "You are here" is a pretty good name for this sectioning >>> content. >>> >>> Vriendelijke groet, >>> >>> Willem-Siebe Spoelstra >>> >>> Sellebrating >>> Ganeshastraat 67 >>> 1363XA Almere >>> Tel: + 31 6 459 575 83 >>> E-mail: info@spoelstra.ws >>> KvK-nummer: 55419038 >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/10/16 Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> >>> >>>> Hi Willem, >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> SteveF >>>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 16 October 2013 14:47, Willem-Siebe Spoelstra <info@spoelstra.ws>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Steve, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the update on this. >>>>> In the explenation you still mention the 'ol', >>>>> >>>>> Authors are encouraged to markup bread-crumb navigation as an ordered >>>>>> list using the ol<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-ol-element> >>>>>> and li<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-li-element> >>>>>> elements. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In this discussion different authors have different opinions, so I >>>>> would like to bring in some again. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I have changed it to say list without encouraging either one. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> 1) Why do you choose to let the sectioning nav element unnamed? The >>>>> "You are here" can better become a header to name this specific sectioning >>>>> content. >>>>> 2) This is a good comment on Jens his post: >>>>> >>>>> A breadcrumb represents a path through a tree, not the tree itself. >>>>>> The consecutive items make it clear we’re going step by step down the tree >>>>>> structure, so the path is just one-dimensional. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In my opinion OL is still the better choice. However, when you say: >>>>> >>>>> as in practice i think it makes little difference >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> why don't mention it is up to the author to use OL or UL? >>>>> >>>>> 3) The arrows should not be content but CSS in my opinion. >>>>> >>>> >>>> the arrows convey direction to sighted users and I think they should >>>> also convey direction to other users too, having them in text means that >>>> they are announced by AT for example. NVDA announces: (→ "right arrow") >>>> >>>> list with 4 items >>>> You are here: >>>> link >>>> Main >>>> → >>>> link >>>> Products >>>> → >>>> link >>>> Dishwashers >>>> → >>>> Second hand >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> 4) What I also don't understand is why no <a> is being used on the >>>>> current page list item, see this comment: >>>>> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22739#c5 >>>>> >>>> >>>> fixed that >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Vriendelijke groet, >>>>> >>>>> Willem-Siebe Spoelstra >>>>> >>>>> Sellebrating >>>>> Ganeshastraat 67 >>>>> 1363XA Almere >>>>> Tel: + 31 6 459 575 83 >>>>> E-mail: info@spoelstra.ws >>>>> KvK-nummer: 55419038 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013/10/16 Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all after reviewing the discussion and other input I have made >>>>>> some changes to the example: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. have included the text label as text rather than in aria-label as >>>>>> i think it is useful for any uers. >>>>>> 2. have changed it from a OL to UL as in practice i think it makes >>>>>> little difference in this case, the relationship of precedence is provide >>>>>> by the use of the right arrows (thanks jens) to indicate path. >>>>>> 3 have added right arrows. >>>>>> 4 added note to discourage use of > angle brackets >>>>>> >>>>>> Note: >>>>>> Again, this is only an editors draft for further review it is not >>>>>> (necessarily) the final product. >>>>>> Although as sylvia points out > is often used, if we can encourage >>>>>> authors to use the right arrow which makes more sense then all the better. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks also to david mac for the test case and user feedback very >>>>>> helpful! >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> SteveF >>>>>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 26 January 2013 17:00, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Section 4.13.1 Bread crumb navigation (under Common idioms without >>>>>>> dedicated elements [1]) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> encourages the use of the right angle bracket to indicate a >>>>>>> breadcrumb navigation trail: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <p> >>>>>>> <a href="/">Main</a> > >>>>>>> <a href="/products/">Products</a> > >>>>>>> <a href="/products/dishwashers/">Dishwashers</a> > >>>>>>> <a>Second hand</a> >>>>>>> </p> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The use of > in this context does not appear to be a good practice to >>>>>>> promote as the angle bracket is a symbol that depending on user agent >>>>>>> (AT in this case) is typically announced as "greater" or not >>>>>>> announced >>>>>>> in this context. Either way it is not clearly convyed that its a >>>>>>> breadcrumb trail. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It may be that this is not an issue for users who consume the angle >>>>>>> brackets in this context and the pattern of its use conveys that it >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> a breadcrumb trail. If it is a problem I suggest that this example >>>>>>> would need to be revisited to see if we can come up with something >>>>>>> that is more useful to a wider range of users. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/common-idioms.html#common-idioms >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> with regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve Faulkner >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
Received on Wednesday, 16 October 2013 14:57:12 UTC