Re: allow footer in blockquote for citations

Hi Andrew,
thanks for the clarification, understand now. initial reasoning is to keep
metadata in an element that is recognised now by assistive tech (for
example) as containing  "information about its section such as who wrote
it, links to related documents, copyright data, and the like."

but from the use cases/examples provided on
http://oli.jp/example/blockquote-metadata/
it would be appropriate to provide a identify to include in line references
and cite seems like a good candidate.





--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>


On 29 August 2013 10:46, Andrew Herrington <a.d.herrington@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> I think my query wasn't clear.
>
> I generally support the change in the spec but I don't understand why
> we're requiring the attribution (if there is one) inside the block quote to
> be inside a footer element (see bolded part below)
>
> "Attribution for the quotation, may be be placed inside the blockquote<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element> element,
> but must be inside a footer<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#the-footer-element>
>  element"
>
> Point 2 on
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Aug/0100.html seems
> to back the assumption that most people use the pattern:
>
> <blockquote>
> Blah blah
> <cite><a href=”http://example.com/foo”>A person</a></cite>
> </blockquote>
>
> rather than:
>
> <blockquote>
> Blah blah
> <footer><cite><a href=”http://example.com/foo”>A person</a></cite><footer>
> </blockquote>
>
> I think footer should still be allowed (for anything that doesn't fit
> inside a cite element) but I think we should allow the first pattern as
> people are using it and it has semantic value.
>
>
> KInd regards,
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On 29 Aug 2013, at 10:21, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> >Apologies if I missed this but what is the reason for requiring the
> citation to be in a footer
>
> its not a requirement,
> its a relaxing of current requirements to allow for a common use, while
> providing a way to indicate "this is metadata about the quote"
>
> suggest reading-
>
> new (proposed):
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element
>
> old:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html51/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element
>
> change based on:
>
>    - https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22996 (note: am not
>    closing bug as this discussion has some time to run yet)
>    - http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2013/on-citing-quotations-again/
>    - http://oli.jp/2011/blockquote/
>    - http://html5doctor.com/blockquote-q-cite/
>    - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Aug/0100.htmland related
>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>
> On 29 August 2013 10:15, Andrew Herrington <a.d.herrington@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Apologies if I missed this but what is the reason for requiring the
>> citation to be in a footer within the blockquote? Is this in case the quote
>> itself contains a citation?
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:55, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> some details:
>>
>> new (proposed):
>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element
>>
>> old:
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/html51/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element
>>
>> change based on:
>>
>>    - https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22996 (note: am not
>>    closing bug as this discussion has some time to run yet)
>>    - http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2013/on-citing-quotations-again/
>>    - http://oli.jp/2011/blockquote/
>>    - http://html5doctor.com/blockquote-q-cite/
>>    - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Aug/0100.htmland related
>>
>> question:
>>
>> Is the change backwards compatible? i.e. does it break anything?
>> data appears to show that metadata about a quote inside blockquote
>> element is common
>>
>>> ”inside blockquote” was used 57% of the time, while
>>> “outside blockquote” was used 43% of the time.
>>>
>>> source:
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Aug/0100.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> SteveF
>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>>
>>
>> On 29 August 2013 07:53, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I have made a change in the HTML 5.1 editors draft to allow citations to
>>> be included in a footer element within a blockquote element.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-blockquote-element
>>>
>>>
>>> review and comment welcome!
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> SteveF
>>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>