W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > April 2013

Re: indicating subtitles using small

From: Ian Devlin <ian@iandevlin.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 10:39:12 +0200
Message-ID: <CAOYOhSvoPQv0n3fiEpBFG3Z1H8yS9D1iLFUbByXHF+r=vBv4JQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
I have no idea how that could be identified. I was just mentioning it as it
would skew the example data.

On 8 April 2013 10:26, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:

> note the data is not meant as evidence in support of use its just some
> examples of use i found.
>
> how can identify if bootstrap is being used?
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>
> On 8 April 2013 08:22, Ian Devlin <ian@iandevlin.com> wrote:
>
>> But how many of those websites are based on Twitter Bootstrap?
>>
>>
>> On 7 April 2013 23:35, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> >I believe
>>> >the use of small for sub-thingies in headings also predates HTML5
>>>
>>> i did a quick grep of <small> in h1/h2/h3  https://
>>> dl.dropbox.com/u/377471/tests/smallinhx.html <https://t.co/1lllq5VA1s>
>>> using the http://webdevdata.org data set
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> SteveF
>>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 April 2013 22:07, Mallory van Achterberg <stommepoes@stommepoes.nl>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 08:23:00PM +0100, Léonie Watson wrote:
>>>> > Steve Faulkner wrote:
>>>> >> “what are peoples thoughts on extending <small> to identify
>>>> >> subheadings/subtitles taglines etc. when used as a descendant of a hx
>>>> >> element?”
>>>> >
>>>> > I think it would be prudent to keep <small> for marking up  small
>>>> print like
>>>> > legal disclaimers etc. Extending it to include taglines etc. would
>>>> blur the
>>>> > semantics too much.
>>>> >
>>>> > This does have echoes of the <hgroup> question though. I wonder
>>>> whether it’s
>>>> > worth revisiting the idea of a purpose built element for taglines,
>>>> > straplines and the like?
>>>>
>>>> I've been using <small> for exactly this sub-heading use for some
>>>> time now. While I could agree that it should be a "no" if it must
>>>> remain more a fine-print/legal text semantic, the reason I've been
>>>> using it over a span is really how I hear it in my head: the same
>>>> way I hear small print and often stuff in parenthesis, and for this
>>>> reason the text is indeed usually styled smaller (same reason legal
>>>> text is).
>>>>
>>>> The fear of blurring the semantics more is, in my view, already done
>>>> since HTML5 making a new meaning of an old tag pretty much means
>>>> most developers will be using the original meaning, if any. I believe
>>>> the use of small for sub-thingies in headings also predates HTML5, but
>>>> someone would have to show evidence like Steve's hgroup research.
>>>>
>>>> The arguments of the Bootstrap guys are not very convinving; for
>>>> them, any tag would do and they chose this one. Hey, they also use
>>>> <li> for heading tags too. If some in the WG would rather stiffen up
>>>> the usage of <small> to restrict this kind of random usage, I'd
>>>> understand. And then we'd have more reason to figure out tagline
>>>> solutions.
>>>>
>>>> OT:
>>>> Then again I've continued using <address> for addresses, and would
>>>> rather the name change to reflect "webmaster contact email".
>>>>
>>>> -Mallory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ian devlin
>> e: ian@iandevlin.com
>> w: www.iandevlin.com
>> t: @iandevlin <http://www.twitter.com/iandevlin>
>> skype: idevlin
>>
>> buy my book: html5 multimedia: develop and design<http://html5multimedia.com>
>>
>
>


-- 
ian devlin
e: ian@iandevlin.com
w: www.iandevlin.com
t: @iandevlin <http://www.twitter.com/iandevlin>
skype: idevlin

buy my book: html5 multimedia: develop and design<http://html5multimedia.com>
Received on Monday, 8 April 2013 08:39:46 UTC

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