W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > February 2012

Re: Request to Reconsider Alt Guidance Location

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:07:40 -0500
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Cc: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Michael Smith <mike@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, public-html@w3.org, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>, Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120224040740.GH4220@sonata.rednote.net>
Leif Halvard Silli writes:
> Janina Sajka, Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:05:05 -0500:
> > Leif Halvard Silli writes:
> >>>>>> Btw, I agree that two HTML5 specs should not contradict each others. 
> >>>>>> But I do think HTML5 'proper' should contain basic advice and rules. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Are you asserting that alternative text applies only to HTML?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Why do you ask, when the CP *does* suggest to have have a HTML5 
> >>>> specific guide - in the form of Steve's alt techniques spec? Changing 
> >>> 
> >> Sorry. I admit that it was hard to grok.
> >> 
> > OK. Then let me point you to items #3 and #4 in the third paragraph of
> > the Summary section. What is your response? Do you agree, or no?
> > 
> > Is alternative text just about HTML or no?
> Of course not. E.g. the ARIA 1.0 spec is for any mark-up based host 
> language. But it is not new info that alternative text is not an issue 
> specific to HTML5.

But, if it's not specific to HTml 5, how can you justify trying to keep
it HTML 5 space? Do you expect people working with PDF, with SVG, with
ODF, with whatever other markup where this guidance is appropriate to
somehow know they need to find their way into HTML documents to get this
guidance? How does that work when the well-known location of this work
has been WAI-WCAG for over 15 years? And, it seems the people willing to
continue working on the guidance are actually WCAG people, not HTML

May I also point out that the author and editor of the Techniques
document himself requests this move? Does that count for nothing?

> In a way, what you say, is that Ian and Steve's two spec's are so good 

No, I'm sorry. They disagree. Ian's must go.

> with regard to @alt, that what their content should be lifted out of 
> HTML5 and be made applicable for — I guess — images in general. So on 
> one side the CP focuses on problems within the HTML working group, on 
> the other side it says that is has produced good and useful texts on 
> @alt.
Yes, Steve, with the help of other from the accessibility group has
produced very valuable documentation that needs to be widely shared and
properly maintaned. This is not a minor issue for a11y.

As the CP explains, it was produced in this space because Ian and others
here were getting so much about alternative text wrong. But, that's not
a reason to hang on to it like some kind of trophy.

> At any rate: The document 'HTML5 techniques for providing useful text 
> alternatives' remains a HTML5 specific document. Why else should the 
> HTML working group be co-responsible for it?
> -- 
No, it's not HTML specific. Perhaps its examples are HTML specific at
this time, because this was its initial audience. But, the examples, and
its title, can and must be globalized.


> Leif Halvard Silli


Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

Chair, Protocols & Formats
Web Accessibility Initiative	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
Received on Friday, 24 February 2012 04:08:16 UTC

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