- From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 10:39:07 +0000
- To: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
- Cc: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, Matthew Turvey <mcturvey@gmail.com>, Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CA+ri+VmnkHDriX7AOMcqp70qaeTd4kZoUekzCex4h-W+GBbAkg@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Ben, > Apple Accessibility API), AT could query the DOM to find the referenced description elements and map them > back to the accessibility tree. my understanding is that VoicOver does not query the DOM directly at all, by design. regards Steve On 2 February 2012 10:33, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com > wrote: > [This conversation has derailed from discussing image maps] > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 4:44 AM, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca> wrote: > > 2) You couldn't just park it off screen somewhere, or 'hide' if with > > @hidden, and then link to it with aria-describedby because: > > > > a) You would lose both the hyperlink to the actual speech, as well > > as the semantic markup of <abbr>, as both would be flattened to string > text. > > > > b) If somehow you could overcome the flattening-to-string-text > > problem, to activate the hyperlink you must put tab-focus on the link - > how > > do you focus on something that is hidden? And what of sighted users, > > (perhaps using a tool such as ZoomText Magnifier/Reader, which is both a > > screen reader and screen magnifier - > > http://www.aisquared.com/zoomtext/more/zoomtext_magnifier_reader/) who > would > > hit the tab key and not see a visible tab focus (failing WCAG 2.4.7 Focus > > Visible: Any keyboard operable user interface has a mode of operation > where > > the keyboard focus indicator is visible. (Level AA)) - what exactly > should > > the magnifier magnify? > > It's a good question, but again we need to ask the editors of ARIA > this question as they are the ones who are saying UAs may and AT > should provide a way to navigate to navigate to even hidden structured > information. > > > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_relations_reverse_relations > > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#include_elements > > One possible UI solution to this would be to generate some sort of > popup display rendering the hidden content. You could even mimic > precisely how JAWS uses @longdesc by rendering the hidden content into > a data URI and then asking the browser to open the data URI in a new > window. But it might be get a better UI by generating a lighter weight > popup (think the popup displays used by Apple VoiceOver) based on the > accessibility tree itself. > > > c) The aria-describedby attribute (as well as its companion > > aria-labelledby and aria-label attributes) are read as the Accessible > Label > > in the Accessibility API's - those APIs do not recognize the fact that > this > > is additional and supplemental information that should be served to the > user > > on demand - they instead supply their labeling/describing text as part of > > the regular speech flow. > > This doesn't sound right to me? In the suggested API mappings, > @aria-labelledby and @aria-label are mapped to accessible name and > (where available) labelled by relations but @aria-describedby is > mapped to accessible description and (where available) described by > relations: > > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_role_table > > APIs do not generate "speech flow". AT is free to use the semantics in > the accessibility graph however they like, and additionally to query > the DOM for more information. It may be (I haven't see any tests > around this) that all text-to-speech ATs currently read the > description property automatically, but that is not a limitation of > the information available to AT. For example, where APIs support > relations (iAccessible2, UI Automation, AT-SPI), AT can locate the > description nodes in the accessibility tree. Where APIs that do not > support relations (legacy MSAA and Apple Accessibility API), AT could > query the DOM to find the referenced description elements and map them > back to the accessibility tree. Having located the description nodes, > rather than automatically reading the description property, AT could > give the user the option of moving focus to those nodes. > > Querying the DOM is of course more cumbersome than using relations, > but I believe this how JAWS supports @longdesc in IE. > > Gecko appears to provide special methods for opening long descriptions > in nsHTMLImageAccessible: > > > http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/html/nsHTMLImageAccessible.h > > > http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/html/nsHTMLImageAccessible.cpp > > I'm not quite sure what these actions look like in the various > accessibility APIs, but there's no fundamental reason that opening a > data URI or some other sort of popup pulling together the elements > referenced by @aria-describedby could not be exposed by the same > mechanism. It would look the same to legacy AT. > > -- > Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis > > -- with regards Steve Faulkner Technical Director - TPG www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com | www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Thursday, 2 February 2012 10:40:05 UTC