- From: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
- Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 10:35:47 +0000
- To: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>
- Cc: Matthew Turvey <mcturvey@gmail.com>, Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 4:44 AM, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca> wrote:
> Matthew Turvey wrote:
[snip]
>> I think the poor quality of the longdesc-specific examples in the wild
>> confirms my own real world experience that this technique is never
>> needed.
>
> We can no longer give any credence to this line of argument, as multiple
> actors in the HTML5 evolution have stated that HTML5 is not just a capturing
> of the real internet as it is today (which includes BTW limited but real and
> appropriate use of @longdesc), but that it should also be a road-map to what
> the web should be:
>
> On 2012-01-06 Anne van Kesteren stated: "A standard sets a goal."
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13531#c8
>
> On 20-01-30 Jonas Sicking wrote: "... so far this has not happened. So
> let's instead write the specification that will create the most accessible
> web once implemented..."
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0199.html
>> I think the poor quality of the longdesc-specific examples in the wild
>> confirms my own real world experience that this technique is never
>> needed.
>
> We can no longer give any credence to this line of argument, as multiple
> actors in the HTML5 evolution have stated that HTML5 is not just a capturing
> of the real internet as it is today (which includes BTW limited but real and
> appropriate use of @longdesc), but that it should also be a road-map to what
> the web should be:
>
> On 2012-01-06 Anne van Kesteren stated: "A standard sets a goal."
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13531#c8
>
> On 20-01-30 Jonas Sicking wrote: "... so far this has not happened. So
> let's instead write the specification that will create the most accessible
> web once implemented..."
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0199.html
You're comparing apples and oranges.
Anne and Jonas are both talking about not limiting what UAs should do
based on what UAs happen to do today, where not constrained by
compatibility with the existing web corpus.
They are not talking about the predictions we can make about, and weak
influence the spec can have upon, authoring behavior.
This has been articulated before, for example by Tab Atkins:
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13531#c15
This is why the poor implementation of @longdesc in today's UAs a weak
argument against making @longdesc conforming, but the poor
implementation in today's web corpus is a strong argument (though not
IMHO decisive).
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Received on Thursday, 2 February 2012 10:36:14 UTC