RE: Review of ISSUE-164 change proposals - Part 5: Replace <hgroup> with an element that has a simple content model and backwards compatibility

The Chairs have not been able to determine if Toby still supports his hSub2 change proposal and/or wants to update it given the Chairs' feedback.

The Chairs would like to determine if there is anyone in the WG supports this proposal for ISSUE-164:

> Replace <hgroup> with an element that has a simple content model and backwards compatibility.
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hSub2

The Chairs are going to assume that NO ONE supports this change proposal if we do not get an explicit support response to this email by Tue Aug 21.   If we determine that NO ONE explicitly reports the hSub2 change proposal then we plan to go to survey with the remaining four change proposals for ISSUE-164 [1].

/paulc
HTML WG co-chair

[1] http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-164

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329

From: Paul Cotton [mailto:Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:18 PM
To: Toby Inkster
Cc: public-html@w3.org
Subject: Review of ISSUE-164 change proposals - Part 5: Replace <hgroup> with an element that has a simple content model and backwards compatibility

We have five change proposals for ISSUE-164:
http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-164

The following is a Chairs review of the fifth change proposal:

Replace <hgroup> with an element that has a simple content model and backwards compatibility.
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hSub2

1. Structure of change proposal

The proposal includes an appropriate Summary (actually entitled "Change Proposal"), Rationale,  Details and Impact (only Risk are provided).

2. General comments on change proposal

a) Rationale

> Existing content<http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Hgroup_element#Real_World_Examples> on the web does not use as complex multi-level subheadings as <hgroup> was intended to support.

This argument would be stronger if you explicitly called out the <hgroup> examples in the use cases and show that they do not "use a complex multi-level subheadings".

Several other Change Proposals make assertions about the implementation experience of <hgroup>.  Your Rationale would be stronger if you mentioned this item to give your position relative to the implementation experience of <hgroup>.

b) Details

It would be much better if the supplied Details section was written more in the style of a replacement for Section 4.4.7 "The hgroup element" [1].   It may not be obvious to the CP reader or to the Editor if you have given all the material needed for the new element you are proposing.

In addition, these Details are possibly inadequate.  If these instructions imply that just Section 4.4.7 "The hgroup element" should be replaced then they omit the other mentions to <hgroup> in the HTML5 specification.  In addition the detail to add the proposed <hsub> element omits any indication if <hsub> should be added to any other sections in the document to replace the <hgroup> occurrences.

Styling and Authoring Errors

These two parts of the Details do not appear in Section 4.4.7 "The hgroup element".  If you draft an actual <hsub> section to replace Section 4.4.7 "The hgroup element" then you may way to move these two sub-sections to either your Rationale section or to the Details and Impact section.

Please let the Chairs know by Tue Jul 31 if you plan to revise your change proposal and when you can do the revision by.

/paulc
HTML WG co-chair

[1] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/single-page.html#the-hgroup-element

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329