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Re: hgroup and ARIA outline in ISSUE-129 [Was: SSUE-129: replace or modify the ARIA section of the HTML5 spec - chnage proposal and replacement spec text]

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:34:55 +0100
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: James Graham <jgraham@opera.com>, Bruce Lawson <brucel@opera.com>, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, Michael(tm) Smith <mike@w3.org>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Message-ID: <20101130153455987040.175fafde@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Steve Faulkner, Tue, 30 Nov 2010 07:58:26 +0800:

> If we say the hgroup itself does not have a default role and heading 
> level, but has the effect of removing the semantics from any headings 
> except the highest ranking within the hgroup we end up with
> 
> Analysis
>  <h2>The problem</h2>
>  A mathematical model
> 
> which appears to be correct?

Perhaps your thinking is correct. But the conclusion, as written, is 
incorrect: the highest ranking element of the example is <h3>.

But how would screen readers read the hgroup if the highest ranking 
header is the second child element?

<hgroup>
 <h2>The problem</h2>
 <h3>An analysis.</h3>
 <h2>The mathematical model</h2>
</hgroup>

And what if there are two h3 elements?

> As a consequence I suggest that the hgroup itself should have no 
> default role and that any headings inside a hgroup except the highset 
> ranking should have no default role.
> 
> thoughts?

(1) I would suggest that screenreaders should treat all, but the first 
appearing highest ranking heading, as <p> elements. That's clearly the 
logical thing to do.

(2)  Another option could be to forget the entire hgroup element - or 
to change it. [1] It is usually frowned upon to use h1-h6 for stylistic 
purposes. But inside hgroup, all but the hightest ranking element, are 
only used for their stylistic effect.

(3) I think a hgroup element contaning a single h1-h6 element should 
definitely not have any default role. But if it is a real, multilevel 
heading, then why not make the screenreader user aware that he/she 
reads a multilevel heading?

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Nov/0409
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Tuesday, 30 November 2010 14:35:37 UTC

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