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RE: Adding a warning to Working Drafts pointing to Editor's Drafts

From: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 15:33:28 +0000
To: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
CC: Anne van Kesteren <annevk@opera.com>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <E3EACD022300B94D88613639CF4E25F8145BACD4@TK5EX14MBXC138.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
The latest messages on this thread occurred very early on Fri AM ET and I have been travelling across 9 time zones to the TPAC meetings ever since.  This is my first chance to give my view on this item.

> It seems the general sentiment is in favor of a warning that shows up no matter where you are in the draft, but can be hidden to avoid distraction.

It is not obvious to me that we have a concrete change proposal to take action on here.  Does the WG actually agree that a problem exists?  Will any warning be user suppressable or not?   How exactly will the warning be implemented and what user agents will it work on?  Will suppressing the warning be done in an "accessible" way?

In our private dialogue with the HTML5 Editor the Chairs explained why we wanted the warning he added to the Working Draft removed:

>If the existing text is buggy, we ask that such be reported publicly, and discussed openly, giving everybody an opportunity to participate. 

Following the above sentiment, I would prefer that we not rush to judgment here and that we use our WG Decision Policy to determine the WG's position on this matter and any actions to be taken.  

Therefore I would like to suggest that someone file a bug that clearly states the rationale for needing a warning in Working Drafts on the TR page hopefully with a detailed change proposal that describes how the warning will be implemented so that we can use the WG's Decision Policy to decide how to act on the bug.

/paulc

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329

From: public-html-request@w3.org [mailto:public-html-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Maciej Stachowiak
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:49 AM
To: Maciej Stachowiak
Cc: Anne van Kesteren; Ian Hickson; HTML WG
Subject: Re: Adding a warning to Working Drafts pointing to Editor's Drafts


If everyone is ok with this wording, I think the right next step would be for editors to provide updated Editor's Drafts that include it. Maybe Ian can go first so other editors have an example to copy from. It seems the general sentiment is in favor of a warning that shows up no matter where you are in the draft, but can be hidden to avoid distraction.

Once we have Editor's Drafts with that change, then, since a number of folks feel that adding it is an urgent need, the Chairs are open to doing a quick publication round right after TPAC to add in the warnings, rather than waiting until the next 3-month heartbeat.

Regards,
Maciej

On Oct 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:



Here's a suggested slight tweak to the warning wording, to highlight the fact that the Editor's Draft may have additional bug fixes, which seems like the key thing we are trying to convey to implementors. Any objections to this version?

---------
"This is a work in progress! 

For the latest updates from the HTML WG, possibly including important bug fixes, please look at the <a>editor's draft</a> instead."
---------

Regards,
Maciej


On Oct 28, 2010, at 9:41 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:



On Oct 28, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:


On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:19:43 +0200, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Oct 2010, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:

Anyway, now that it has been brought up - what do you think of the
warning box in the recently published Navigation Timing Working Draft:
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-navigation-timing-20101026/>?

I think it needs to be significantly more prominent; in particular, I
think it should be visible at all times. Most people don't see the status
section, especially if they just followed a link deep into the multipage
version.

Yeah, can't believe how many times our engineers get tripped up by this. Pretty clear that the age of bookmarks is over and people just search and follow the first hit -- which often is the wrong one in case of standards, but that is not made clear.

Let's continue discussion of the details in the warning in a separate subthread (changed topic).

Regards,
Maciej
Received on Monday, 1 November 2010 15:34:16 UTC

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