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Re: ISSUE-66 Change Proposal: be more explicit about potential repair techniques

From: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:16:48 -0600
Message-ID: <643cc0271003091516q7d1b8766gc112acb001de3109@mail.gmail.com>
To: Matt May <mattmay@adobe.com>
Cc: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>
So, Matt, your thing is that all that text doesn't make a difference,
doesn't cloud or obscure what people should do?

Well, then I guess I'll have to continue with your proposal, since you
won't.

Shelley


On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 4:52 PM, Matt May <mattmay@adobe.com> wrote:

> I'm willing to accept this change proposal. It covers what can be done
> to images in greater detail, without making it sound like good-enough
> repair for missing alt.
>
> One issue I have, though, is that many of the features mentioned are
> more likely to be cloud services than they are to be embedded in a
> browser. If the CP can make it clearer that these could be either
> native features of the browser, links to services running in the
> cloud, or assistive technologies that extend the browsing experience,
> I would fully support this proposal and withdraw my own.
>
> -
> m
>
> On Mar 9, 2010, at 4:46 AM, "Ian Hickson" <ian@hixie.ch> wrote:
>
> >
> > SUMMARY
> >
> > The spec is very vague about what image analysis techniques could be
> > applied to images. This change proposal suggests including more detail
> > about possible techniques.
> >
> >
> > RATIONALE
> >
> > Currently the <img> element section mentions that UAs "may also apply
> > heuristics to help the user make use of the image when the user is
> > unable
> > to see it", but the only suggested heuristic is OCR.
> >
> > In practice, there are a host of other heuristics that could help a
> > user
> > make sense of an image, and they might be useful even to users who
> > _can_
> > see the image. We do all users a disservice by not being more explicit
> > here. Being explicit could encourage significant competition amongst
> > user
> > agents, leading to a much better user experience for everyone.
> >
> > Since these heuristics are in many cases already implemented and
> > shipping,
> > sometimes in multiple products from multiple vendors, and since recent
> > advances in image recognition techniques have been fast and furious,
> > it
> > seems reasonable to mention these techniques as real possibilities.
> >
> >
> > DETAILS
> >
> > Strike "when the user is unable to see it". Instead, start a new
> > sentence
> > before the "e.g", which says "This would be especially useful to
> > users who
> > cannot see the image", and add the following after the "e.g."
> > clauses, in
> > a separate clause: "but it could also be useful to users who _can_
> > see the
> > image, but might not fully understand or recognise it".
> >
> > Move "optical character recognition (OCR) of text found within the
> > image"
> > to be the first bullet of a bulleted list, and add the following
> > additional points:
> >
> >   * Facial recognition in photographs, especially facial recognition
> > of
> >     notable individuals or of individuals in the user's social
> > network.
> >
> >   * Product or brand recognition in photographs or logos.
> >
> >   * Barcode recognition of any embedded barcodes.
> >
> >   * Bitmap to vector analysis for diagrams, allowing images to be
> >     further analysed in specialised tools.
> >
> >   * Data extraction for graphs, allowing data to be reconstructed from
> >     bar charts, pie charts, and the like, or allowing regression lines
> >     to be fitted to x,y plots.
> >
> >   * Landmark recognition for photographs.
> >
> >   * 3D reconstruction of scenes based on multiple images, allowing a
> > set
> >     of images to be taken together and explored in context.
> >
> >
> > IMPACT
> >
> > POSITIVE EFFECTS
> >
> > Adding such text could lead to a renewed level of competition in
> > browsers
> > as they find the best ways to expose such tools to users.
> >
> > Such competition would inevitably lead to improved accessibility
> > across
> > the board, as many of these analysis techniques could provide users
> > with
> > anything from a basic hint of the image's contents to fully-
> > interactive
> > reconstructions of the image in more accessible forms (especially in
> > the
> > case of text-in-image or graphs).
> >
> > NEGATIVE EFFECTS
> >
> > Makes the spec longer.
> >
> > CONFORMANCE CLASS CHANGES
> >
> > None.
> >
> > RISKS
> >
> > It is suggested that mentioning that user agents might be able to
> > repair
> > non-conforming pages could make authors less likely to write
> > conforming
> > pages, though it is not clear why this would apply here and not in the
> > many other parts of the spec that mention repair techniques,
> > especially
> > the sections that explicitly mandate specific user agent repair
> > techniques.
> >
> > --
> > Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )
> > \._.,--....,'``.    fL
> > http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _
> > \  ;`._ ,.
> > Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--
> > (,_..'`-.;.'
> >
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 9 March 2010 23:17:22 UTC

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