- From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
- Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:36:44 +0200
- To: Karl Dubost <karl+w3c@la-grange.net>
- Cc: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, Bruce Lawson <brucel@opera.com>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Karl Dubost, Mon, 7 Jun 2010 20:05:10 -0400:
> The difference between the two examples illustrates two schools of thoughts.
>
> [
> cut two examples with
> figure/img/figcaption
> see for references
>
http://www.w3.org/mid/Pine.LNX.4.64.1006072239310.22659@ps20323.dreamhostps.com
> ]
>
>
> 1. Descriptive
> In which the alt tag is used to described what is in the image.
>
> 2. Text flow
> In which the alt tag is given an empty value (alt="")
> because it would be awkward in the text flow without images.
>
> Both cases could be valid.
Indeed. However, HTML5 has generally been a context where the "Text
flow" school of thought (also known as "visible meta data") has ruled
the ground. I am therefore (theoretically spoken) surprised to see
Ian's lay-out of the problem ...
> It depends on the context and what the text author would like to
> convey to the readers.
> It also depends on how "figcaption" element would be treated by
> assistive technologies.
> Something part of the text or something special with a marker.
>
> For example, in a vocal browser saying something like:
> "IMAGE CAPTION blablabla"
> or just
> "blablabla"
>
> If the vocal browser says "IMAGE CAPTION" then the alt with a
> meaningful content seems to be necessary.
I think the problem is whether we see @role and aria as an integral
part of HTML5 that user agents *must* support. Or if the view is that
WAI-ARIA is like a "Cascading Accessibility Sheets", which only some
are required to support.
E.g. if we do this:
<figure role='image'>
<summary>blablabla</summary>
<img src="i" alt="" role="presentation">
</figure>
Then, firstly, a vocal browser *would* say "IMAGE CAPTION blablabla".
The problem is those UAs that do not support WAI-ARIA. What should we
do for them? I see these options:
1) Do nothing. After all, even if they don't support WAI-ARIA,
they are required to support <figure>.
2) Do this: <img alt="See summary!" role="presentation" src="i">
(This could probably be confusing.)
3) Duplicate the figure caption inside the @alt. This wouldn't
bug those who have UAs whic support WAI-ARIA.
I wonder if not 1) is the best approach.
Another approach could be to make sure that @alt and the the figure
caption are used for different things (or at least contain different
text). E.g. in Ian's example, the @alt contains optional information
and thus that @alt falls into the aria-describedby category (while the
figure caption, of course, falls into the aria-labelledby category):
<figure role="img" aria-describedby="img-element" >
<img id="img-element" src="ceo"
alt="Photograph: A tall man with brown hair,
and a moustache sits at a keyboard while
smiling to the camera." >
<figcaption>
Brian Slick, CEO of Blammo Corp, leveraging a
synergy.
</figcaption>
</figure>
--
leif halvard silli
Received on Tuesday, 8 June 2010 09:37:51 UTC