- From: Jim Jewett <jimjjewett@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:52:23 -0400
- To: HTML WG Public List <public-html@w3.org>
- Cc: W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>
[example of a supposedly good summary follows] >> <table summary="This table presents traveling expenses. Rows contain >> destinations, traveling dates, and grand total. Columns contain expense >> category and total. The first column contains merged table cells."> >> <!-- Remainder of table --> Tab Atkins wrote: > Looks like jgraham found the table in question, located in the HTML4.01 spec: > http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#h-11.4.2 > Interestingly, this table is *completely* different from every table > that we tried to generate in IRC based on the summary. (It appears that the table was there to illustrate axis, rather than summary, but still...) I'll be less diplomatic, and say that that summary confused me -- and my confusion got worse when I tried to understand the table in terms of the summary. I think the summary would improved by describing columns first, and by using "or" rather than "and" on the row description. With additional clarification, I came up with: "This table presents traveling expenses. Data columns contain expense category and total. The row headers are the city (in an otherwise empty row at the start of a row group), the date, or an indication that it is row of totals." But as part of untangling it to get there, I tried to recreate the markup. (The table is presented as an image, and it took me a while to notice that the markup appeared later.) I think more time on getting the table format right, or at least using headers properly, should be more useful than a summary. Then I noticed that the summary used in the actual specification was much more clear (but less structural): summary="This table summarizes travel expenses incurred during August trips to San Jose and Seattle" Then I double-checked the alt= "Image of a table listing travel expenses at two locations: San Jose and Seattle, by date, and category (meals, hotels, and transport), shown with subtitles" Barring the typo of "titles" for "totals", this seems to be a more structural @summary, rather than an @alt. Since I really would like better accessibility, I'll try to make my questions specific: (1) Is there some reason to believe that the supposed good summary is actually better than the real summary, my rewording, or the existing alt? For example, (1a) Did someone do actual user testing? (1b) Are there @summary conventions that AT users are familiar with? (If so, are they documented somewhere?) (1c) Is listing row meanings and then column meanings as ingrained as which side of the road to drive on? (2) In this particular case, would any of the four choices (existing summary, existing alt, summary from the wiki, my proposed rewording) be unacceptable? (3) Now that we're all looking at the same table, is there an even better @summary? (3a) Is there one that could be produced from header values? (3b) Could it be produced from header values, if the table had better structure? (It seemed to use <td> vs <th> largely for the visual effect of boldface type; I'm not sure how they bolded the 800.27 in the image.) (3c) Given the table header algorithm, would it be OK to auto-generate that better summary, so that people could spend the time fixing their structure instead of patching around it with a hand-crafted summary that might not be maintained? -jJ
Received on Friday, 11 September 2009 00:53:24 UTC